Inuzuka Skysword

So are you saying that even if something is immoral, it is still desirable?

sleepy jack

Good job answering the question. I don't care about your philosophy lets talk about how well your government actually works. Again without taxes what keeps the government and everything it funds going?

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Inuzuka Skysword

XD

We can't talk about what is practical until we talk about what is moral. What is moral is always practical. How can something be defined as practical if the outcome is of no interest to the one who is defining it? By definition one must want a good outcome is something is practical. Am I right?

Philosophy is the center of all things. You cannot avoid it. Look at the way we humans work. Our world view is what we make decisions based off of.

dac

So being taxed is immoral? You do realize that while sometimes the taxes are used improperly those taxes pay the salaries of people Police and Firemen. They help pay for you to have safe roads to drive on. They help pay to keep criminals off of the streets and away from your family. If you want to say that we need watch how the taxes are spent, I'll talk. But if you're going to try and say that taxing in general is immoral and wrong then you can go to North Korea or some other wonderful communist country.

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sleepy jack

I'm not going to get into a philosophical argument here because I don't care to and won't agree with you anyway because I think Objectivism is bullshit. Why don't you want to talk about how well your government would actually function? You really don't need to get into what is moral to see if something is fiscally retarded or not.

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Inuzuka Skysword

I don't think you have a brain. If I am against taxes then how can I be for communism? I am for real capitalism. 100% lassiez faire capitalism is what I want. You are more of a socialist than I am.

I can talk about it, but you will not agree because you don't believe what is moral is practical. I believe the government would get money from donations because that is what is rational and moral. The government would not force others to pay for their services. The government gives its services and those who are rational will pay for their services. Since the rational are the ones who become rich in a laissez faire economy, they will be able to give tons of money to the government. Therefore the government will be able to receive funding. Of course, all the government would have is a police force, armed forces, and courts with a strict constitution protecting contractual agreements and everyone's basic rights so it isn't like you would need much.

sleepy jack

Yes but who will pay for the roads? The schools? And what guarantee is there that the right people who will donate will become rich? Just their "rationality?" Are you even aware how much it costs to adequately maintain an Armed Force? And then a police force for the entire country? Who will ensure that companies operate in a fair and even handed manner? That they don't cut corners, endanger peoples lives and that they dispose of their waste in an ethical manner? I have more questions on an international level but lets stick with these for now.

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Inuzuka Skysword

Roads: Whoever wants to pay for them. Roads built immorally are still built immorally so even if our road system would not be as connected as it is, eventually someone will come up with an easier/cheaper way to make them because it is capitalism.

Schools: Schools are a business. There is a demand for schools so schools will obviously be in existence. Public schooling? Nope, but if one can't afford to pay for school he can always try to appeal to private charities and etc. The right to an education does not mean that one is guaranteed to an education.

And what guarantee is there that the right people who will donate will become rich?: Well I can guarantee that rational people will donate. Otherwise, you have anarchy and the society may result and an immoral government.

Just their "rationality?" And what incentive is there to donate?:
I listed the incentive above, but the rich man has the incentive to donate because if he doesn't all hell will break lose and it will be targeted towards him. The rich man is the one who is blamed for almost everything these days. Plus, you have looters who would just steal form him anyways. So if the man can have some security by donating some money to the government, why not give a bit?

Are you even aware how much it costs to adequately maintain an Armed Force?:
Well it depends on how big the armed forces are. If the demand for an armed force is high, people will donate. If it is low, people won't. The army will also benefit from the capitalist economy. Lots of things get done under capitalism. So eventually the army will be better and easier to maintain. Also, to take into consideration, we are getting further and further from using armies. We are finding new ways to kill each other without having to see the person die. Eventually armies will probably phase out. I am not using this point to support my argument, however.

And then a police force for the entire country?
Again, supply and demand. Plus, our current police men are paid to go after people for dumb **** like drugs. Things would not work that way under this system.

I cannot answer this question without getting into philosophy. If you really want me to answer, then ask the question again. Of course you would have obvious violations such as breaks in contractual agreements, which would be solved by the government. Though I would need you to define "fair and even handed."

Ethics is one of the four main branches of philosophy.

sleepy jack

I don't see where someone paying to have a road built turns a profit for them. Why should I pay for a road that everyone is going to use? Do you think roads are made in some kind of an expensive and frivolous way and that can just be transformed into an easily maintained and cheap road so easily? Wouldn't that require you know, researching, testing, development, various trials, etc and doesn't that all cost money? Everyone who contributes to your society in these manners would have to be incredibly rich and to think, a road still wouldn't turn a profit! Why should anyone bother then?

So your society is donations away from anarchy and chaos, nice. Who's to say how much needs to be donated? And what if the security people want more than the rich can give them because they're too busy trying to make roads for no profit?

How will the army benefit from the capitalist economy? Their pay is dependent on "rationality" and "morality." What if we get invaded? We won't have many allies because I doubt your system of government has any room for being involved in international organizations or having ambassadors or silly things like that. So our nation's defense will depend on how much money we can muster and hopefully some other nation's pity.

What aren't the citizens paying for here? It seems to me like all the with any money to spare are going to be donating to everything from roads to police to an army and if they don't they'll be fucked because than people will just straight after them. Strikes me as kind of funny you're going on about taxes being immoral and yet your form of government demands you either donate or better make sure you're not successful.

It's not hard to define fair and even handed. Like you know, not dumping nuclear waste into rivers or oceans, preparing foods in sterile environments. The things our government regulates and demands in industry now.

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dac

So you want to live in a world where our children aren't guaranteed schooling? Dude! WTF?

Are the children supposed to go out and get jobs to finance their education? Why should only the rich kids get to go to school? What did those kids do to earn that right? Nothing. Your system is a terrible system that rewards few and punishes many.

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