Religion, War and Violence (Europe, Religious, quotes)

pianokeys · 12-09-2008, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayJamJah

What's the deal with that?

Oh, just one of the episodes he opens with this whole skit about if aliens came to Earth they'd think that dogs were the superior beings because humans run around after them picking up their shit...

Fruitonica · 12-09-2008, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dac

I don't know if a thread like this has been created elsewhere at all but I couldn't find one so here we go:

I share a lot of views with New Atheists (though I myself am not Atheist) that organized religion is both directly and indirectly a cause of most all wars. What do you all think about it?

Most all wars? Not really, let's look at some of the major conflicts in recent times. Not all mind, I'm sure you could come up with counter examples.

WW1
WW2 (including holocaust)
Vietnam
Korea
Iraq

None of them were motivated by religion. Sure, sometimes the instigators were religious, but I'm hardly about to pin Stalin's regime upon atheism.
It really is just human nature to engage in conflicts, often religion is used as an excuse, but just as often other factors are the cause.

dac · 12-09-2008, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fruitonica

WW2 (including holocaust)

So why was Hitler killing the Jews again?

streetwaves · 12-09-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayJamJah

What's the deal with that?

The dog thing is a Seinfeld joke.

cardboard adolescent · 12-09-2008, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dac

So why was Hitler killing the Jews again?

Because he was using them as a scapegoat for their economic crisis? Just like we try to turn our politicians into scapegoats for our current economic crisis, because we are completely unwilling to blame ourselves.

I mean, Hitler may have used Christianity to his advantage but he was also harshly critical of it. That was definitely not his motivation.

dac · 12-09-2008, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent

Because he was using them as a scapegoat for their economic crisis? Just like we try to turn our politicians into scapegoats for our current economic crisis, because we are completely unwilling to blame ourselves.

I mean, Hitler may have used Christianity to his advantage but he was also harshly critical of it. That was definitely not his motivation.

Maybe I'm an optimist but:

- (Random Guy) Hitler, we have an economic crisis on our hands, what do we do???
- (Hitler) Ok, now just stay with me on this one guys. I'm going to exterminate a race of people. That will totally solve our problems.
- (Random Guy) Genius!!! I'll get right on it.
- (Hitler)
(

)

cardboard adolescent · 12-09-2008, 04:01 PM

more like

hitler:
Today I will once more be a prophet: If the international Jewish financiers in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into a world war, then the result will not be the Bolshevization of the earth, and thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe!

goebbels:
Regarding the Jewish Question, the Führer is determined to clear the table. He warned the Jews that if they were to cause another world war, it would lead to their own destruction. Those were not empty words. Now the world war has come. The destruction of the Jews must be its necessary consequence. We cannot be sentimental about it. It is not for us to feel sympathy for the Jews. We should have sympathy rather with our own German people. If the German people have to sacrifice 160,000 victims in yet another campaign in the east, then those responsible for this bloody conflict will have to pay for it with their lives.

the german people:
heil hitler!

Fruitonica · 12-10-2008, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dac

So why was Hitler killing the Jews again?

I actually thought it was a mostly racial thing, as well as being an obvious scapegoat.

There is a pretty strong belief that Hitler did not actually believe in Christianity, but kept it up as a public pretence, obviously I can't really prove this, because of the amount of conflicting quotes floating around.

Here's a couple of semi reputable story I can find on Hitler's disbelief in religion.

Word for Word/The Case Against the Nazis; How Hitler's Forces Planned To Destroy German Christianity - New York Times

The religion of Hitler: German dictator Adolf Hitler

Quote:

On occasion we have read people claim that "Hitler was a Catholic" or "Hitler was a Christian" in a meaningful way, implying that Christianity or Catholicism was the primary impetus for his Nazi reign. Such claims are simply vitriolic attacks occasionally voiced by ideologically-inclined anti-Christian, anti-Semitic or pro-Nazi people. Historians agree that Hitler was pointedly anti-Christian

Son of JayJamJah · 12-10-2008, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardboard adolescent

more like

hitler:
Today I will once more be a prophet: If the international Jewish financiers in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into a world war, then the result will not be the Bolshevization of the earth, and thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe!

goebbels:
Regarding the Jewish Question, the Führer is determined to clear the table. He warned the Jews that if they were to cause another world war, it would lead to their own destruction. Those were not empty words. Now the world war has come. The destruction of the Jews must be its necessary consequence. We cannot be sentimental about it. It is not for us to feel sympathy for the Jews. We should have sympathy rather with our own German people. If the German people have to sacrifice 160,000 victims in yet another campaign in the east, then those responsible for this bloody conflict will have to pay for it with their lives.

the german people:
heil hitler!

exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fruitonica

I actually thought it was a mostly racial thing, as well as being an obvious scapegoat.

There is a pretty strong belief that Hitler did not actually believe in Christianity, but kept it up as a public pretence, obviously I can't really prove this, because of the amount of conflicting quotes floating around.

Here's a couple of semi reputable story I can find on Hitler's disbelief in religion.

Word for Word/The Case Against the Nazis; How Hitler's Forces Planned To Destroy German Christianity - New York Times

The religion of Hitler: German dictator Adolf Hitler

Hitler was not nearly the racist as he was the cold calculated tactician. Everything he did as Führer was führer strategic reasons...

Fruitonica · 12-10-2008, 03:18 AM

I totally agree.

I think I misrepresented myself, I was trying to say that his public reasoning was more along the lines of racial vilification rather than attacking the jewish religion.
Although that's just an impression on my part, not really backed by anything in particular.

12-09-2008, 04:01 PM	#47 (permalink)
cardboard adolescent ;) Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CA Posts: 3,503	more like hitler: Today I will once more be a prophet: If the international Jewish financiers in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into a world war, then the result will not be the Bolshevization of the earth, and thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe! goebbels: Regarding the Jewish Question, the Führer is determined to clear the table. He warned the Jews that if they were to cause another world war, it would lead to their own destruction. Those were not empty words. Now the world war has come. The destruction of the Jews must be its necessary consequence. We cannot be sentimental about it. It is not for us to feel sympathy for the Jews. We should have sympathy rather with our own German people. If the German people have to sacrifice 160,000 victims in yet another campaign in the east, then those responsible for this bloody conflict will have to pay for it with their lives. the german people: heil hitler!

12-10-2008, 03:18 AM	#50 (permalink)
Fruitonica Pale and Wan Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Aus Posts: 917	I totally agree. I think I misrepresented myself, I was trying to say that his public reasoning was more along the lines of racial vilification rather than attacking the jewish religion. Although that's just an impression on my part, not really backed by anything in particular.