TheBig3

Why? I make 30K pre-taxes every year. What the **** do I care what constitues rich...

__________________
I've moved to a new address

WendyCal

What's so bad about all of this is that, no matter which you cut it, he's out there lying to people, and now, he doesn't even care if it's blatant ~ unless he's been Pro-Life, all along, and that would explain a LOT, to me. But, please? The sudden change of heart around the religious community?

Mystifying.

Son of JayJamJah

Do you think it's fair that someone who makes ten times as much as you pays nearly half their income in taxes while you probably pay around 28-30%?

__________________
Me, Myself and I United as One

If you're posting in the music forums make sure to be thoughtful and expressive, if you're posting in the lounge ask yourself "is this something that adds to the conversation?" It's important to remember that a lot of people use each thread. You're probably not as funny or clever as you think, I know I'm not.

My Van Morrison Discography Thread

WendyCal

One day you might have the opportunity to own a business, and then it would matter. But i do see your point.

Also, it's the matter of him changing like that ~ the guys making $151K -$249K are now ALL spitting nails, and who could blame them. They were told one thing, to secure their support and votes, and now they're stuck like chuck.

TheBig3

You know I post on a political forum and you remind me of this guy who pounced on everything and anything the Democratic ticket did. I was told I should denounce the Obama-Biden ticket because Biden lied about plagerising some college paper.

I was reading the Time article "Does Temperment Matter" and they said because of Nixon we're overly focused on Character but we were reminded with Bush that judgement matters quite a bit.

I don't give a rats ass about what he changed 5 days before the election. Thats actually risky since he has a tremendous lead over McCain. Even JJJ said all tax proposals are just proposals. Nothings certain until Congress handles business.

__________________
I've moved to a new address

jibber

I'm going to say right now that this is likely to be an issue which no one will change their minds on. I suspect that WendyCal and Jayjamjah are of the thought that people's money are their own, under any and all circumstances, and that everyone should be responsible for their own wealth. If one man is buying his 6th house, and another is struggling to feed himself and his family just a few neighboorhoods away, the first man has no reason to part with his hard earned money.

I am of a completely different thought, I would honestly see no problem in paying higher taxes if I was very wealthy (and yes, 150K+ a year is very wealthy) if it meant it was being invested in GOOD social programs that were making a difference. Mainly, this comes from my not putting much value in monetary things. I've never understood the motive behind buying a 100K car. I've never understood the logic of owning 6 homes. I've never understood the motive behind buying designer clothing. I believe that his tax plan is fair, because I believe that if one very wealthy person has to pay so much taxes that he can no longer afford to buy that 4th or 5th or 6th home, if it gives enough of a tax break to another man so that he is able to keep his family from being evicted, I see no issue with it.

I'm sure this will open the floodgates to everything from calling me a socialist, to being naive, to whatever else. But it's one of those issues that is fueled solely by opinion, so of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I sincerely doubt I'll change anyone's, and I know that no one will change mine.

__________________
What you've done becomes the judge of what you're going to do -- especially in other people's minds. When you're traveling, you are what you are right there and then. People don't have your past to hold against you. No yesterdays on the road.
William Least Heat Moon, Blue Highways

Your toughest competitor lives in your head. Some days his name is fear, or pain, or gravity. Stomp his ass.

HOOKED ON THE WHITE POWDER

TheBig3

I wouldn't think it fair if it were true. They don't pay half, most business folks are going to live in Deleware, not France. I live in Massachusetts and I'd guess I pay more in taxes than most on here...(states wise of course).

I might have the oppertunity but you understand that if people making 150k aren't paying the majority of the taxes, guys like me making 30K are, so do you honeslty think that I'm going to have the money to buy from businesses?

I moved this week and I had to write a check for $1125. I spent exactly $0 from my checking account because I had $20 in there extra. I didn't eat out, I didn't buy clothes, I didn't do anything. Thats what happens when I pay a majority of the taxes. Money needs to circulate and you pro-market clowns forget that Taxes aren't killing businesses, a lack of sales are killing businesses.

You think the stock market crashed because of Taxes? Get serious. You don't even need to be well versed in this stuff, its just logic.

If people don't have money to spend, they don't buy from businesses.

I don't know what else to say. If you can't figure that out, theres no point in my trying to explain it 7 other ways. My point of contention will always be, where do businesses get the money if not from consumers (because consumers are over taxed). If you can answer that, you might get me to budge.

__________________
I've moved to a new address

WendyCal

Who the heck do YOU know who owns 6 houses (that aren't travel trailers! ) and makes only makes $150K/year??? My bro and his wife make more than that, and they're paying on their house, they're saving for their children's college, they have money in the bank, a disposable income, but if they had to pay 50% in taxes??? That would change.

Our prices have been going up, up, and away, and we (Dev and me) only make about $27K, and with rent, a vehicle, insurances, taxes, and utilities, we have to pay bills before we can buy groceries! And we really don't have high bills.

The further and further his proposal dips down, the less and less motivation WE'RE going to have ~ who wants a raise that's going to COST YOU??? And the thing is, the further DOWN he goes, the even FURTHER down our Reps will take it.

You have a sort of bad habit of focusing in, too closely, on one particular thing or another, and it's easy to lose the Big Pic that way. (Just saying)

jibber

Oh for christs sake. No where in my post did I say that someone who makes $150K a year had six houses. I called people who make $150K a year wealthy, and anyone who says otherwise has lost touch with reality. I used the 6 houses example because there are a lot of people in the US who are that wealthy, and like Big3 stated, they are not the ones paying the majority of the taxes. Furthermore, my post was mainly to highlight the difference of opinion that I suspect we have on the issue. I have no problem with taxing the very rich more than they currently are, for the reasons that Big3 stated earlier. People making around 30K a year are the ones bearing the brunt of taxes, and they are the ones that are needed to bolster the economy. Economies fail most spectacularly when the middle class is largely abolished, and in giving tax cuts to the very wealthy, it serves only to widen the gap between the very wealthy and the poor, and since the taxes will have to come from somewhere, the middle class will be left to pick up the slack.

__________________
What you've done becomes the judge of what you're going to do -- especially in other people's minds. When you're traveling, you are what you are right there and then. People don't have your past to hold against you. No yesterdays on the road.
William Least Heat Moon, Blue Highways

Your toughest competitor lives in your head. Some days his name is fear, or pain, or gravity. Stomp his ass.

HOOKED ON THE WHITE POWDER

WendyCal

No, no, no ~ i didn't say the stock market crashed because of taxes, nor did anyone else, i don't think.

i honestly think the ONLY taxes our government should be getting from us are Sales Taxes, and i don't mind if they want it to be up to 15%. i think foreign Businesses operating here should pay SUBSTANTIAL taxes, and i believe that they should also pay SUBSTANTIAL Excise Taxes.

To me, that would be fair.