The Unfan

But nowhere has it ever been implied that we're fighting because of genocide, and even if we did use that claim the UN didn't give the thumbs up.

Son of JayJamJah

When you fight the bully at it's implied that it's because of all the awful things he's done to the less powerful. Even if you don't say so.

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Me, Myself and I United as One

If you're posting in the music forums make sure to be thoughtful and expressive, if you're posting in the lounge ask yourself "is this something that adds to the conversation?" It's important to remember that a lot of people use each thread. You're probably not as funny or clever as you think, I know I'm not.

My Van Morrison Discography Thread

WendyCal

You supported Desert Storm

but you can't imagine that our soldiers could come back,

report on what they had found and were told,

and that the decision to 'help' was then made.

Maybe that's because it's awful hard to see the Big Pic when you've narrowed your vision down to a pin-point beam...

Just saying

jibber

No, NOT EVERYONE believed that iraq had WMD's at the time. A huge number of people in the US did not think so, and so did a MASSIVE number of people in canada and other nations.

yes, as i stated earlier, NOW iraq is a hotbed for al-queda operations, after sadam was ousted. they were not, and had not been present before the war.

yes, i do want to say the war was mismanaged. I do want to say that it was a short sighted, and VERY misguided approach to the war on terror. I am making a case against the war based on my personal morals and beliefs.

I do not, however, see this issue as black and white as you do. I do not think that bombing the **** out of a country because of a minority of fanatical people. I do not see that war is the answer in fighting terrorism or anti-wester sentiment in the middle east. Any intelligent person can see that war will never be the answer to this. There has been years of oppression and poverty imposed by puppet governments of the west, and this anti-western sentiment has been so indoctrinated that unless we actually go to the route of the cause, it will never be solved.

People there hate us because they are desperately poor, have no access to education, and have been brainwashed to think that the western infidels are the cause of all their problems. They have seen their governments extort them and drain all resources away to benefit only the rich minority, and they have been told it is the US's fault. BOMBING them isnt going to help increase their regard for the US.

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What you've done becomes the judge of what you're going to do -- especially in other people's minds. When you're traveling, you are what you are right there and then. People don't have your past to hold against you. No yesterdays on the road.
William Least Heat Moon, Blue Highways

Your toughest competitor lives in your head. Some days his name is fear, or pain, or gravity. Stomp his ass.

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jibber

no, i can't see that, because that's not the big picture. The "big picture" is not that the US wanted to "help" the iraqi's. If that were the case, then the war would have been pitched to congress as a humanitarian intervention as opposed to a move in defense. You have no logic or facts backing up that statement.

__________________
What you've done becomes the judge of what you're going to do -- especially in other people's minds. When you're traveling, you are what you are right there and then. People don't have your past to hold against you. No yesterdays on the road.
William Least Heat Moon, Blue Highways

Your toughest competitor lives in your head. Some days his name is fear, or pain, or gravity. Stomp his ass.

HOOKED ON THE WHITE POWDER

The Unfan

I disagree with analogy. The government isn't inherently corrupt, because the government is in large part because of us. We the people are responsible for the government, and should be more outspoken about what we dislike. We're supposed to call them on their corrupt actions and if the government remains corrupt its because we're not doing enough to change it.

The difference in wealth seems to call for it though. When the top 20% make up over 90% of the wealth there needs to be proportionate taxation. You can't reasonably expect less than 10% of the nation's wealth to pick up the slack where the other 90% of the wealth wasn't taxed enough. The problem isn't the oddness of the taxation, but how poorly the dollars are spent.

jibber

no, it's not implied. Because when a president takes the issue to go to war, he is expected to outline each and every reason for why. When bush took the issue to congress, he did not put "humanitarian mission" at the top of the list. it might have been added in one of the appendixes as an afterthought, but when talking about a vote to go to war, an "implied" reason just isnt good enough.

__________________
What you've done becomes the judge of what you're going to do -- especially in other people's minds. When you're traveling, you are what you are right there and then. People don't have your past to hold against you. No yesterdays on the road.
William Least Heat Moon, Blue Highways

Your toughest competitor lives in your head. Some days his name is fear, or pain, or gravity. Stomp his ass.

HOOKED ON THE WHITE POWDER

WendyCal

Says who? One, or thousands ~ what's the diff? Sooner (one), or later (thousands).

When you fight for something that you believe in, with all of your heart, you aren't all that concerned with whether you'll be a survivor or not. (You hope, of course! ) But that isn't what makes your mind up ~ oh, gee, will i live through it? You are more like, 'Hey, if i live through THIS stuff, i will be livin' large on easy street!' And along with that? So will all my friends, neighbors and family.

jibber

How dumb are you?

do you really think that in this day and age, all the iraqi people have are scythes and sickles? They have guns. lots and lots of guns. They didn't use it in an uprising against the government because they didnt feel compelled to. They didn't think it was worth dying for. Now, thanks to the US, they don't have a choice.

The kurds in iraq have been staging a revolt for years. for years they have been organizing militias to fight for an autonomous state. The greater iraqi population saw no need for such a revolt.

__________________
What you've done becomes the judge of what you're going to do -- especially in other people's minds. When you're traveling, you are what you are right there and then. People don't have your past to hold against you. No yesterdays on the road.
William Least Heat Moon, Blue Highways

Your toughest competitor lives in your head. Some days his name is fear, or pain, or gravity. Stomp his ass.

HOOKED ON THE WHITE POWDER

jibber

Again, the IRAQI'S do NOT believe with all their heart that democracy is the answer. They did not take up arms until the US turned the country into a battlefield.

__________________
What you've done becomes the judge of what you're going to do -- especially in other people's minds. When you're traveling, you are what you are right there and then. People don't have your past to hold against you. No yesterdays on the road.
William Least Heat Moon, Blue Highways

Your toughest competitor lives in your head. Some days his name is fear, or pain, or gravity. Stomp his ass.

HOOKED ON THE WHITE POWDER