Predator

Do you think our actions in Bosnia were justified?

Based on the intelligence available at the time, the war was justified. Bush even admitted that knowing what they do now the intelligence was wrong. If the Clinton administration had the sack, the war would have happened 10 years sooner. The invasion plans were drafted with slick willie in charge.

I never said it did, but living in a country bordering Iraq doesn't make you any more of an authority either. I asked where you were the 10 years before the war because there were diplomatic attempts to resolve the situation.

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The answer is hidden in plain view.

jibber

oh really?

the war on iraq was started ORIGINALLY under the premise that iraq was harboring al-queda and working with bin laden.

this was later proved to be completely and utterly false.

It was further justified that iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

this was also proven to be false.

Now where exactly was the distortion of facts?

__________________
What you've done becomes the judge of what you're going to do -- especially in other people's minds. When you're traveling, you are what you are right there and then. People don't have your past to hold against you. No yesterdays on the road.
William Least Heat Moon, Blue Highways

Your toughest competitor lives in your head. Some days his name is fear, or pain, or gravity. Stomp his ass.

HOOKED ON THE WHITE POWDER

The Unfan

I think the government exists to serve its people. The three above mentioned things are all good examples of this. However, I think the government could (and should) do much more than that. I don't see why its wrong for the government to create programs that are universally good and only benefit its people.

WendyCal

UnFan? i'm a supposed Repub, and i give all i can, as do the other folks i know.

How could i 'hate' someone for being different than me? EVERYONE is different than me.

jibber

yeah, i know why you asked the question, and i responded int hat way because the question itself was so irrelevant to the conversation. Instead of inadvertently challenging my authority on the matter, you might have just gone on with this post and not wasted time.

The intelligence was wrong at the time yes. However, it has since come to light that there were reports given that iraq did not have WMD's, before Bush started the war, and yet he ignored them. These reports were later made public, and bush's answer as to not reading them in the first place was that he did not think it was important. Now does that sound like the actions of a man who wants to be sure his information is correct before starting a war?

Yes, clinton could have started the war earlier, but at the gulf war was sanctioned by the UN, and the US had no mandate to invade iraq, only to help push iraq out of kuwait, they would have been breaking the UN mandate and thus breaking international law. I dont think that would be called having "balls", i think that would be defined as a war crime.

edit: and yes, i do think that intervention in bosnia was justified. There was a genocide going on, and the UN was in total agreement that intervention was necessary. The war was NOT started under false pretenses, and it actually served to stop further genocide from happening.

__________________
What you've done becomes the judge of what you're going to do -- especially in other people's minds. When you're traveling, you are what you are right there and then. People don't have your past to hold against you. No yesterdays on the road.
William Least Heat Moon, Blue Highways

Your toughest competitor lives in your head. Some days his name is fear, or pain, or gravity. Stomp his ass.

HOOKED ON THE WHITE POWDER

Son of JayJamJah

Right in what you posted. It was believed that Iraq had WMD's all credible international and American intelligence at the time pointed to that. Doesn't matter if it was proven false, it's what everyone believed at the time.

Several UN sanctions forbid the Iraqis from possessing WMD's or Chemical weapons. The UN refused to uphold and enforce the sanctions so the US and other concerned nations took action.

Also Iraq has been proven to be a hotbed for Al-Queda and at no time did anyone say that Bin'Laden was in Iraq, we we're already in Afghanistan looking for him when the Iraq war started.

If you want to say the war has been mismanaged or was until recently, fine.

If you want to make a case for a short sighted approach to the war on terror, fine.

If you want to make a case against war in general based on personal morality, ideals, fine.

But regardless of semantics if you can see the difference between the good guys and the bad ones here and understand the gravity of the situation in whole I feel you are greatly misguided.

Your thoughts?

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Me, Myself and I United as One

If you're posting in the music forums make sure to be thoughtful and expressive, if you're posting in the lounge ask yourself "is this something that adds to the conversation?" It's important to remember that a lot of people use each thread. You're probably not as funny or clever as you think, I know I'm not.

My Van Morrison Discography Thread

WendyCal

How do you abolish a corrupt government?

Hmmm...

Civil War sounds like an option.

But, yikes. When all you have are 'plow shares' ~ scythes and sickles, sticks and stones ~ WTF do you do?

What you can ~

try to let the outside world know what's going on;

try to enlist some sort of aide;

try to survive.

The Unfan

Good job not reading her post.

Predator

Based on the number of times the 4th Infantry Division and 1st Cavalry Division were placed on alert to deploy to the "Persian Gulf" region, I'd say the plans were there. It would not have been a war crime. We were set to deploy every time that weapons inspectors were denied entry.

There was also genocide going on in Iraq. That is the #1 reason I support the actions taken.

__________________

The answer is hidden in plain view.

Son of JayJamJah

In theory it's great but the government is inherently corrupt. It's like letting a child grade their own work. If they know they can benefit from it and can not be punished most will skew the system in their own favor.

If the government didn't tax the wealthy so viscously and disproportionately there would be a lot more private sector philanthropy and programs like those, which we both agree would greatly benefit this and any country. The difference s with the government there to keep the people in check the systems are much more likely to run efficiently and become profitable for all parties.

We want the same end we just have a different approach to the means.

__________________
Me, Myself and I United as One

If you're posting in the music forums make sure to be thoughtful and expressive, if you're posting in the lounge ask yourself "is this something that adds to the conversation?" It's important to remember that a lot of people use each thread. You're probably not as funny or clever as you think, I know I'm not.

My Van Morrison Discography Thread