The Debates (Religious, incomes, quote, 1992, Inci)

sleepy jack · 10-07-2008, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaspStar

Proof that the primaries tend to select one of the most mediocre candidates: the Dems had both Gravel and Edwards contesting for the nomination. We wound up with a game show contest between Hillary and Barrack. Ouch.

Edwards wouldn't have stood a chance, he cheated on his wife when she was in remission from cancer.

~~The Unfan~~ · 10-07-2008, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyrenza

excuse me?

how does being able to see the bad decision(s) that put a disaster in motion relate to

well

the price of tea in china?

Take note that the democrats didn't create the disaster, a republican did. Also take note that the economy was just fine last time a democrat was in office. Sure some decisions weren't the best, but they weren't as far off and as extreme as you'd make them sound. In fact, housing was pretty well off until Bush ruined it. However, your argument was that since democrats hinted that leniency was good, and it is, that they also wanted the extreme end of it, which simply isn't true. This is called a slippery slope argument. You were trying to take readily available information and stretch it out to farcical proportions for the sake of a point. Both of my examples were essentially on the same lines.

anticipation · 10-07-2008, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepy jack

Edwards wouldn't have stood a chance, he cheated on his wife when she was in remission from cancer.

shows good judgement.

~~Fyrenza~~ · 10-07-2008, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Unfan

Take note that the democrats didn't create the disaster, a republican did. Also take note that the economy was just fine last time a democrat was in office. Sure some decisions weren't the best, but they weren't as far off and as extreme as you'd make them sound. In fact, housing was pretty well off until Bush ruined it. However, your argument was that since democrats hinted that leniency was good, and it is, that they also wanted the extreme end of it, which simply isn't true. This is called a slippery slope argument. You were trying to take readily available information and stretch it out to farcical proportions for the sake of a point. Both of my examples were essentially on the same lines.

the dems DID create the disaster

the economy was just fine?

housing was pretty well off? let's see:

Quote:

Originally Posted by wasp

(from another forum)

The History of a Financial Disaster

1997:
Fannie Mae is a GSE (Govt. Sponsored Entity) regulated by Congress.
Fannie Mae buys mortgages from other companies.
It is backed by the taxpayers for all losses, but keeps all profits!!!
President Clinton loosens Home Loan Requirements.

1998:
Banks begin making thousands of bad loans, 0 down, no documentation, for 120% (1998 - 2008).
Executives at Fannie receive huge bonuses if loan targets are met.
Franklin Raines and Jamie Garelick from the Clinton Administration are appointed to run Fannie Mae.

2003:
President Bush proposes a new oversight committee to clean up Fannie Mae, but Democrats derail the effort.
Rep. Melvyn Watt, (D-NC) Committee on Financial Institutions & Consumer Credit stated, “I don’t see (it doing) much other than weakening the bargaining power of poorer families to get affordable housing.”

1999-2004:
Raines earns $100 million in bonuses
Garelick earns $75 million in bonuses
In 2004, Enron collapses, congress investigates, Executives Skilling & Lay go to jail for fraudulent bookkeeping.
Congress responds with the Sorbanes-Oxley Act, more heavy regulation of corporations

2004:
An Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight investigation finds massive fraudulent bookkeeping at Fannie Mae.
False numbers triggered executive bonuses every year.
Congress holds no hearings, no one goes to jail, or is punished.

1999 - 2005
Fannie Mae gives millions to Democratic causes, examples: Jesse Jackson & ACORN.
Fannie Mae pays millions to 354 Congressmen and Senators, from both parties
Who got the most money?
Top Four Recipients:
Sen. Christopher Dodd, (D-CT) Chairman of the Banking, Housing, & Urban Affairs Committee
Sen. Barack Obama, (D-IL) Federal Financial Management Committee
Sen. Chuck Schumer, (D-NY) Chairman of the Finance Committee
Rep. Barney Frank, (D-MA) Chairman of the House Financial Services Committee

2005:
Franklin Raines & top execs are forced to resign from Fannie Mae.
They DO NOT go to jail…
There is no media “perp walk.”
They keep all of their bonuses.
They finally pay $31.4 million in civil fines.
The Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act is sponsored by:
#325 - Sen. John McCain, (R-AZ) Armed Services & Commerce, Science & Transportation

McCain said, “If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.”

NONE of the Top Four Recipients support the legislation
The Reform Act is blocked by Democrats, never even making it out of committee
NONE of the politicians return ANY of the money, tainted by fraud.

2008:
Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac goes bankrupt and the Govt. takes them over COMPLETELY.
Lehman Brothers goes bankrupt from investing in bad mortgages.
AIG gets $85 million in loan guarantees, after insuring bad loans & projects
Franklin Raines has been giving advise to the Obama Campaign which wants the Govt. to take over more of the economy.

it wasn't doing so hot after all

and now, to my farcically proportioned point:

i believe in helping other people who have less than me
but the only one's 'helped' were the one's that helped themselves to other people's money

that program went horribly wrong
and the sooner we can figure who/what/when/where/how
the sooner we can start actually FIXING it and helping the people we want/need to help

idk about you
but i'd rather not fund the likes of raines

~~Fyrenza~~ · 10-07-2008, 08:27 PM

oh

and if walks like a duck
and quacks like a duck
odds are

it's a duck

since it's the dems that have consistentently made the wrong decisions about this
and keep throwing good money after bad
and keep fucking things up for the people that really want to do some good

i'm going to hate on them because of it

that's my story
and i'm sticking to it

~~The Unfan~~ · 10-07-2008, 08:51 PM

So I'm Googling about and can't quite find your sources. Care to link?

~~Fyrenza~~ · 10-07-2008, 10:04 PM

i'm sorry

sure

History of Fannie Mae collapse and Key players. - "The History of a Financial Disaster 1997: Fannie Mae is a GSE (Govt. Sponsored Entity) regulated by Congress. Fannie Mae buys mortgages from other companies. It is backed by the taxpayers for all los

One Economy, Two Spins

did you see near the end of my last post?

i want to help too

i happen to know about the prison situation in south texas

despite millions of dollars that taxpayers pay to house these people
they don't have a/c
they don't have unlimited tv privileges
some of them are housed in dorms that hold over 100 inmates
they eat crap -- LOTS of pb&j sandwiches and stuff i hesitate to feed our dog

where's all that money really going?

for all i know
^^^ it could be the repubs fault
and i'd hate on them for that

it really doesn't matter who is at fault so much as identifying the wrong decisions that were made and not doing the same thing over and over
expecting a different outcome each time

until some major strategy changes are made
it'll be sop (standard operating proceedure):
the middle class getting screwed out of their hard-earned money;
the lower class even lower than ever with all the bankruptcies and their dreams smashed;
the politicians finger-pointing and covering their own asses with raises, fairy-tale perks packages and the ever popular golden parachute of a retirement fund;
and the slimy people who dreamt all this up walk away with all the money

that's the bottom line imho

~~The Unfan~~ · 10-07-2008, 10:23 PM

That news source has one major flaw. Its from 2004, we're in 2008. If you had more recent studies it would show the economy has near collapsed because of Bush's shenanigans.

~~Fyrenza~~ · 10-08-2008, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Unfan

That news source has one major flaw. Its from 2004, we're in 2008. If you had more recent studies it would show the economy has near collapsed because of Bush's shenanigans.

i think the senate and house have to shoulder some of the blame for where we are today

but yeah
bush sort of threw a temper-tantrum and is acting like he just doesn't really give a rat's ass

and we're left with a muslim mole and his licentious side-kick
or some senile old POW and his so-sweet-sugar-wouldn't-melt-in-her-mouth soccer-mom of a running mate
to choose from on election day

crap

WaspStar · 10-08-2008, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepy jack

Edwards wouldn't have stood a chance, he cheated on his wife when she was in remission from cancer.

Clinton survived accusations of infidelity in 1992...

And didn't Newt Gingrich divorce his wife while she was in the hospital receiving treatment for cancer?

10-07-2008, 08:27 PM	#45 (permalink)
~~Fyrenza~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: high above the Republic of Texas Posts: 216	oh and if walks like a duck and quacks like a duck odds are it's a duck since it's the dems that have consistentently made the wrong decisions about this and keep throwing good money after bad and keep fucking things up for the people that really want to do some good i'm going to hate on them because of it that's my story and i'm sticking to it

10-07-2008, 08:51 PM	#46 (permalink)
~~The Unfan~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Methville Posts: 2,116	So I'm Googling about and can't quite find your sources. Care to link?

10-07-2008, 10:04 PM	#47 (permalink)
~~Fyrenza~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: high above the Republic of Texas Posts: 216	i'm sorry sure History of Fannie Mae collapse and Key players. - "The History of a Financial Disaster 1997: Fannie Mae is a GSE (Govt. Sponsored Entity) regulated by Congress. Fannie Mae buys mortgages from other companies. It is backed by the taxpayers for all los One Economy, Two Spins did you see near the end of my last post? i want to help too i happen to know about the prison situation in south texas despite millions of dollars that taxpayers pay to house these people they don't have a/c they don't have unlimited tv privileges some of them are housed in dorms that hold over 100 inmates they eat crap -- LOTS of pb&j sandwiches and stuff i hesitate to feed our dog where's all that money really going? for all i know ^^^ it could be the repubs fault and i'd hate on them for that it really doesn't matter who is at fault so much as identifying the wrong decisions that were made and not doing the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome each time until some major strategy changes are made it'll be sop (standard operating proceedure): the middle class getting screwed out of their hard-earned money; the lower class even lower than ever with all the bankruptcies and their dreams smashed; the politicians finger-pointing and covering their own asses with raises, fairy-tale perks packages and the ever popular golden parachute of a retirement fund; and the slimy people who dreamt all this up walk away with all the money that's the bottom line imho

10-07-2008, 10:23 PM	#48 (permalink)
~~The Unfan~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Methville Posts: 2,116	That news source has one major flaw. Its from 2004, we're in 2008. If you had more recent studies it would show the economy has near collapsed because of Bush's shenanigans.