This I Believe There is / is not a God

The Batlord · 02-18-2011, 01:29 PM

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Originally Posted by ProggyMan

Lol, considering the incredibly poetic nature of much of the bible

If you say so. Besides, what do you know of an ignorant shepherd's peotic knowledge? It is a modern concept that poetry is an intellectual pursuit.

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it certainly wasn't written by 'ignorant shepherds'.

I was speaking of the story of Genesis, which is in the Torah. It may also be in The Bible, but obviously they did not have the same writers.

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra · 02-18-2011, 02:58 PM

Torah = old testament. Obviously since the Jews don't consider the new testament holy they don't call their own book the 'old testament'.

ProggyMan · 02-18-2011, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

If you say so. Besides, what do you know of an ignorant shepherd's peotic knowledge? It is a modern concept that poetry is an intellectual pursuit.

Lol, 'ignorant shepherds' wouldn't have been literate. There's really no basis for your statement about the authors knowledge of metaphor and considering the countless examples of metaphor and other literary devices in the Tanakh it becomes ridiculous.

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I was speaking of the story of Genesis, which is in the Torah. It may also be in The Bible, but obviously they did not have the same writers.

Bible and Torah are interchangeable terms, generally speaking. It's not really relevant though.

Howard the Duck · 02-18-2011, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProggyMan

Lol, 'ignorant shepherds' wouldn't have been literate. There's really no basis for your statement about the authors knowledge of metaphor and considering the countless examples of metaphor and other literary devices in the Tanakh it becomes ridiculous.

Bible and Torah are interchangeable terms, generally speaking. It's not really relevant though.

Revelations reads like John stumbled on an early form of LSD.

The Torah is only the first five books of the Old Testament.

ProggyMan · 02-18-2011, 09:59 PM

I was referring to the Old Testament only. It's habit, I'm Jewish.

**Janszoon** · 02-19-2011, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProggyMan

Lol, 'ignorant shepherds' wouldn't have been literate.

They didn't have to be literate. The stories in the Bible were an oral tradition and were only written down years later.

ProggyMan · 02-19-2011, 12:20 AM

Perhaps, but even so the people who transcribed the traditions into the form of sacred texts were certainly educated.

TockTockTock · 02-19-2011, 09:35 AM

Well, maybe the original text itself wasn't poet, but the King James English translation was (or the Latin translation)? I do know that several monks started to translate the Bible into English so the people (even though most of them were illiterate) could read it and the (sometimes corrupt) priests wouldn't have to read it to them from the Latin translation. Because the priests were able to read Latin, they could manipulate the text's meaning to take advantage of the unknowing worshipers.

The Batlord · 02-19-2011, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProggyMan

Lol, 'ignorant shepherds' wouldn't have been literate. There's really no basis for your statement about the authors knowledge of metaphor and considering the countless examples of metaphor and other literary devices in the Tanakh it becomes ridiculous.

Considering the fact that just about every society has had poetry, regardless of their level of education, I think my statement does have basis. Just off the top of my head, the vikings are famous for creating poetry even though there society was almost entirely illiterate and uneducated. It would seem that Wikipedia even has an opinion on the matter. So, just because the Bible may or may not be poetic (and I honestly don't know or care either way), is meaningless.

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Bible and Torah are interchangeable terms, generally speaking. It's not really relevant though.

No, they're not. Not only does the Bible contain extra books (obviously), but the Bible was also a translation of the Torah and contains many mistranslations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProggyMan

Perhaps, but even so the people who transcribed the traditions into the form of sacred texts were certainly educated.

Really? Nomadic herders were educated? News to me.

ProggyMan · 02-19-2011, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Considering the fact that just about every society has had poetry, regardless of their level of education, I think my statement does have basis. Just off the top of my head, the vikings are famous for creating poetry even though there society was almost entirely illiterate and uneducated. It would seem that Wikipedia even has an opinion on the matter. So, just because the Bible may or may not be poetic (and I honestly don't know or care either way), is meaningless.

Ok, my mistake, the 'ignorant shepherds' were perfectly capable of understanding the concept of a metaphor, which just proves my point anyway.

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No, they're not. Not only does the Bible contain extra books (obviously), but the Bible was also a translation of the Torah and contains many mistranslations.

People use the word 'bible' all the time to refer to all sorts of things, you know what I meant, this discussion is irrelevant.

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Really? Nomadic herders were educated? News to me.

The nomadic herders obviously didn't transcribe the texts, Jewish civilization had evolved quite a bit by the time the Tanakh/Torah was written down.

02-18-2011, 09:59 PM	#865 (permalink)
ProggyMan Reformed Jackass Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,964	I was referring to the Old Testament only. It's habit, I'm Jewish.

02-19-2011, 12:20 AM	#867 (permalink)
ProggyMan Reformed Jackass Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,964	Perhaps, but even so the people who transcribed the traditions into the form of sacred texts were certainly educated.

02-19-2011, 09:35 AM	#868 (permalink)
TockTockTock They/Them Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,914	Well, maybe the original text itself wasn't poet, but the King James English translation was (or the Latin translation)? I do know that several monks started to translate the Bible into English so the people (even though most of them were illiterate) could read it and the (sometimes corrupt) priests wouldn't have to read it to them from the Latin translation. Because the priests were able to read Latin, they could manipulate the text's meaning to take advantage of the unknowing worshipers.