This I Believe There is / is not a God

PinkCigarette · 02-14-2011, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maccabbe

By your logic, we should legalize murder and theft because after all there were some weak religious people in history who also fell in these sins.

And I'm the ridiculous one?

I never claimed to suggest that Religious people are perfect, but at least we try to be on the good side and fix ourselves. God doesn’t demand perfection but excursion.

And all these things that I have mentioned , the deterioration of society as we know it, the sex parties in the colleges, and the drugs, and the evolution theories and all the other negative streams were the direct cause of people who rejected God, and went against his ways.

This is just a fact.

On a personal note, how's your site going on without me there after you have banned me, huh Pink?

You have done what you wanted, so what are you doing here tailing me?

Tailing you? I think you should look at my join date. I'm not tailing you. I am participating in a discussion in a forum I joined way before you. You got yourself banned because of the exact things you are doing in this thread. We are doing much better, thanks for asking, because we don't need to ask you 400 times to stop belittling people just because they don't believe what you believe, but I am not going to create any further MF/MB drama. I am here to discuss things in a mature manner, not start forum wars. Moving on....

Your arguments all make no sense. Religion has nothing to do with anything you talk about. It's PEOPLE who make these decisions. A christian can make the choice to murder. A christian can make the choice to surf the net for porn. A christian can choose to walk around half naked in the streets. A christian can have a gang bang. All of this has nothing to do with them being a christian, just like it has nothing to do with someone being atheist or catholic or ANY OTHER RELIGION.

Introvox · 02-14-2011, 10:21 PM

Hey...I was promised 80% Porn.

I wants my porn.

~~Dirty~~ · 02-14-2011, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Introvox

Hey...I was promised 80% Porn.

I wants my porn.

I thought you just came to MB to bash EvilChuck? Lol, aren't you the admin over at MF too?

No, seriously I thought you came here to do that then leave. Am I wrong?

Atheism has nothing to do with the porn and violence and all that stuff. Christians do it too. I don't see what it has to do with religion when church goers most certainly have watched porn. I bet most of them have had pre-marital sex too.

When you say "sex parties in college" it kinda gives me the impression you didn't attend one.

Howard the Duck · 02-14-2011, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maccabbe

Virtually every single website that I had the chance to visit, I encountered the same story.

A moderator who is very liberal and in fact openly an atheist posts a general statement about giving members the opportunity to discuss religion in respectful and tolerant manner without insulting each other.

After that statement, the liberals and the atheists bring their meteoric avalanche of vicious attacks on religion blaming all the world’s ills and misfortunes on it. This goes for some time, and then I become a member of that site, and I make a general statement that I don’t want to create any enemies or to make fun of people or to insult people, all I want is to express my ideas and convictions about the subject of religion and to debate it intellectually and respectfully. After that, I make my first presentation, some spontaneous ideas and beliefs that enter my mind. There is very little time that passes after that and the personal attacks, vicious anti Semitic insults, people calling me ‘Kike’ and 'Rich' and other undignified vituperations, while all along these atheist ‘Balanced’ site moderators and administrators do nothing to stop it, not only they don’t stop it, but they join in the assault.

Why?

Because the motive was wrong to begin with. These moderatos, masqueraded their utter contempt of religion as ‘an open and fair dialogue about spirituality’ but their main objective was to attack religion.

As soon as I opened my mouth and made some solid and thought provoking comments that utterly destroyed all the nonsense that the various religion hating members have posted, the discussion takes a drastic turn from ‘Bashing religion’ into ‘Bashing those who protect it’.

This has been the same perpetual never ending turn of events with all these religious discussions.

To your credit, I find this site more restraint and open and actually interested in real dialogue then all the other sites that I have been a member of.

For my beliefs and for my courage of not been afraid to state them openly against a mob of hostile attackers, I have been banned from 3 music websites, and I willfully left another music website because the moderators were more vicious in their hate of Religion then the members themselves, so I had to delete my account with them and leave.

I am still waiting for a real religious debate to take place in any of the music websites.

All there is today are ‘Attack religion threads’ but not a single serious truth seeking and balanced and fair discussion that actually wants to hear the other side and not use the thread as a jumping board to attack religion and its followers.

But as I mentioned, this site as of now, is better then all the other sites, even with the personal insults, because some members here are honest, and are willing to engage in a meaningful discussion, and even those who attack and insult keep their hostility at a tolerable level.

We need to change the rules of the game when we talk about religion in these kinds of internet based discussions from those who want to attack religion ‘without demanding any factual evidence’, while demanding from the protectors of religion just that ‘ factual evidence’.

If I am supposed to bring factual evidence to defend my beliefs, those who attack religion have to play by the same rules, bring factual evidence to solidify their claim, and not make general personal observations that express their contempt of religion.

Another important thing would be to stop trying to be funny, or witty, by acting as a clown by hurling and casting insults and funny icon faces at people. If someone feels that he wants to be funny, then there is a place for him to go, its called a circus.

I’m not suggesting to throw out the sense of humor completely from these discussions, but to do all these things in the context of self respect while focusing on staying on subject and not derail it into avenues that have nothing to do with our topic at hand.

I should be permitted to state my opinions as a free human being, openly without been vilified and ridiculed and attacked. Its easy to join the mob, so please take into an account that you the atheists are many and the creationists like myself here are few, so by resorting to mob tactics you wont win any debates, you will only radicalize yourselves, and end up agreeing with yourselves about everything because you are not willing to give the chance of freedom of speech and expression to the other side.

Regards,

Saul

Before you try to rationalise your own views and critiques, perhaps you would like to step into the shoes of the other people here who read your earlier post and the one after that and ponder how they would feel.

I'm a Christian myself, albeit a secular and a particularly Gnostic one, and I for one want nothing to do with fundamentalism or right-wing dogma myself.

I have my own system of spirituality.

call me "lukewarm", "A rebel", whatever, I have my own style of faith and I believe in what I want to believe

and in your post directly after the one I quoted above, just where do you live? I want to migrate there

Introvox · 02-14-2011, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty

I thought you just came to MB to bash EvilChuck? Lol, aren't you the admin over at MF too?

Yes, my friend, that would be totally correct.

It is I.....Muzoid, at your service. *takes a bow*

I was kindly re-welcomed by a mod here, and invited to take part in the community.

Isn't that wonderful?

Howard the Duck · 02-14-2011, 10:34 PM

^^oh hello Muzoid

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra · 02-14-2011, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maccabbe

By your logic, we should legalize murder

Uh... You're not paying attention to what I'm trying to say. You are preaching the bible as 100% literal, and that's extremely dangerous. If the bible is so anti-murder, then explain to me this DIRECT QUOTE from the King James Bible:

Quote:

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones. And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name. And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not: Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people.

This is actually a part of the bible that says it's a sin NOT to murder somebody in a certain situation. The fact you take this **** literally, and then turn around, and preach how evolution is rotting the core of society is absurd. I've never heard Darwin command anybody to openly kill anybody else. Nor have I heard Sagan, Dawkins, or any major atheist figure say that, or anything close.

Introvox · 02-14-2011, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Il Duce

^^oh hello Muzoid

Hey buddy...always nice to see you.

~~Maccabbe~~ · 02-14-2011, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkCigarette

Tailing you? I think you should look at my join date. I'm not tailing you. I am participating in a discussion. You got yourself banned because of the exact things you are doing in this thread. We are doing much better, thanks for asking, because we don't need to ask you 400 times to stop belittling people just because they don't believe what you believe, but I am not going to create any further MF/MB drama. I am here to discuss things in a mature manner, not start forum wars. Moving on....

Your arguments all make no sense. Religion has nothing to do with anything you talk about. It's PEOPLE who make these decisions. A christian can make the choice to murder. A christian can make the choice to surf the net for porn. A christian can choose to walk around half naked in the streets. A christian can have a gang bang. All of this has nothing to do with them being a christian, just like it has nothing to do with someone being atheist or catholic or ANY OTHER RELIGION.

Up until now I have made less then 10 to 15 posts about religion in this site.
I have not called anyone any bad name, or used any dirty language, or insulted anyone on a personal level, please check out all my comments on this thread, and see if I speak the truth or not.

What in the world are you talking about?

In your site, you have sat on the sidelines while people were mobbing around me and calling me Kike and other Anti Semitic diatribes, and you have done nothing to stop them, nothing.

Yet you got the nerve to blame me for everything?

Have you got no shame?

You didn’t have one outspoken religious and creationist person in your website, and when I came, you let the mob attack me so viciously. Even one true creationist was too much for you to bare.

So much for fairness and equal opportunity for all…

As to the discussion , you said :"Religion has nothing to do with anything you talk about. It's PEOPLE who make these decisions".

You don’t mean to suggest that religion supports the awful and devastating way of life of porn and drugs and all these negative things, or to suggest that religion is the cause of all of these things?

What set the ground for all these horrible things to come to reality?

The casting down the Yoke of Heaven to the ground, nothing else.

If people followed the will of God as God wanted, all of these horrible things wouldn’t come to reality.

When a person believes that there is no reward or punishment and that he comes from the apes, why should he care if he becomes a porn star or not? or become a thief or not, or a murderer or not?

Secular Humanism?

We all know what subjective humanism can do, it can support those who they seem are worthy and neglect those who they don’t care for.

Morality needs to be heavenly sanctioned, for objectivity to take place.

Introvox · 02-14-2011, 10:42 PM

I'm editing this...Maccabes posts have disappeared, so it doesn't really make sense anymoe.

02-14-2011, 10:21 PM	#832 (permalink)
Introvox Groupie Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 17	Hey...I was promised 80% Porn. I wants my porn. Last edited by Introvox; 02-14-2011 at 10:37 PM.

02-14-2011, 10:42 PM	#840 (permalink)
Introvox Groupie Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 17	I'm editing this...Maccabes posts have disappeared, so it doesn't really make sense anymoe. Last edited by Introvox; 02-14-2011 at 10:53 PM.

02-14-2011, 10:34 PM	#836 (permalink)
Howard the Duck Live by the Sword Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 9,075	^^oh hello Muzoid