This I Believe There is / is not a God

RVCA · 02-12-2011, 10:29 PM

~~Maccabbe~~ · 02-12-2011, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVCA

Yes, the world will be a much better place if we opened our Televisions and heard some preaching on how to be moral human beings, instead of the crap our children watch day in and day out...

No wonder the youth these days is in catastrophic situation.

Guybrush · 02-13-2011, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maccabbe

The Mythical Evolution movement is in direct opposition to what God wants in this universe, the exact opposite. God created a human being and gave him tools to achieve things that would make him even higher then the Angels, in fact it is mentioned in Sacred Jewish books that when the Angels saw Adam (the first human being) for the first time, they called him 'Holy', that's how lofty and high was the status of the first human being, that even the angels have called him 'Holy'. Yet some scientists want to turn this great and holy creation of God, into an ape bereft of any connection to the heavens.

I have two questions after reading this part

The first is; the majority of christians in the world are catholics. The catholic church has publicly accepted evolution. How do you feel about that?

The second is; you seem to have a belief that because people are essentially holy, they have a capacity to ascend if you will, to become greater than angels. Could you explain that a bit? Have anyone achieved this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maccabe

Some people find it very appealing to be an animal and not 'Holy', for been 'Holy' is a great responsibility, things are expected from you, and you must conduct yourself accordingly, but been an ape? who cares, just do and act like a monkey, there is no ultimate truth to anything, there is nothing divine everything is just atoms and molecules.

What a disgusting and shameful way of living in this world, hating yourself so much that you are willing to become an animal just so that you will achieve this fictional 'freedom' from God.

Here you have a sweeping generalization of how people who believe in evolution act (like animals) as well as their supposed reason for doing so (because they hate themselves).

I am an atheist and I don't hate myself. I also consider myself to be a highly moral being; For example I don't like rudeness and try to behave correctly, I always excuse myself or say I'm sorry should I bump into anyone in the street and I follow God's ten commandments, although my reasons for doing so have nothing to do with religion.

As for morale, you write as if your belief in God is the only thing keeping you from acting like an animal. That is worrying to me. I believe morale is a capacity we have evolved (we have a moral center in the brain), something which lets us live together and cooperate in societies, something that helps us emotionally judge and distance ourselves from those who are morally weak and would exploit us or hurt society. As such, it is a capacity all healthy humans have, hence we're not reduced to "simple animals" without faith in a religion (not to mention many animals have morals too).

You believe that youth is worse off now than ever from a moral point of view. Actually, that depends. People don't hit their kids as much as they did back in the days. Modern men in western society don't hurt their wives as much as they used to either. Punishment is not as cruel in our society as it used to be. The general appreciation and percieved importance of human rights have only increased over the years. Most of the stuff you think is so wicked about modern society is stuff that has come about because people are more free than they used to be. I don't think anything that limits your freedom according to religion is automatically more right. I think morale should be more about how we can happily coexist, for example without hurting eachother.

I bet you're the kind of guy who will defend thrashing children "for their own good" while you'd happily condemn someone to hell for wearing a short skirt. That, to me, is morally awful and weak. The kind who will hit their wives for not behaving right according to some percieved idea from the book. Thankfully for me, there's been a decrease in that kind of people and that helps make society morally better.

Howard the Duck · 02-13-2011, 05:11 AM

i'm pretty much secularistic and Gnostic in terms of my Christian faith

atheists will sort their life out in their own time

**Janszoon** · 02-13-2011, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I am an atheist and I don't hate myself. I also consider myself to be a highly moral being; For example I don't like rudeness and try to behave correctly, I always excuse myself or say I'm sorry should I bump into anyone in the street and I follow God's ten commandments, although my reasons for doing so have nothing to do with religion.

I agree with the sentiment of this paragraph but I do need to nitpick the last sentence. Surely as an atheist like myself you don't obey all ten commandments. I assume things like keeping the sabbath holy and not taking the lord's name in vain mean as little to you as they do to me.

Guybrush · 02-13-2011, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I agree with the sentiment of this paragraph but I do need to nitpick the last sentence. Surely as an atheist like myself you don't obey all ten commandments. I assume things like keeping the sabbath holy and not taking the lord's name in vain mean as little to you as they do to me.

Hah, no that's true. I probably do use God's name in vain and I don't even know what or when the sabbath is

(didn't have much of a christian upbringing)

**Janszoon** · 02-13-2011, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

Hah, no that's true. I probably do use God's name in vain and I don't even know what or when the sabbath is

(didn't have much of a christian upbringing)

Seriously? It's today, Sunday. Or Saturday for Jews.

~~Maccabbe~~ · 02-13-2011, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I have two questions after reading this part

The first is; the majority of christians in the world are catholics. The catholic church has publicly accepted evolution. How do you feel about that?

The second is; you seem to have a belief that because people are essentially holy, they have a capacity to ascend if you will, to become greater than angels. Could you explain that a bit? Have anyone achieved this?

Here you have a sweeping generalization of how people who believe in evolution act (like animals) as well as their supposed reason for doing so (because they hate themselves).

I am an atheist and I don't hate myself. I also consider myself to be a highly moral being; For example I don't like rudeness and try to behave correctly, I always excuse myself or say I'm sorry should I bump into anyone in the street and I follow God's ten commandments, although my reasons for doing so have nothing to do with religion.

As for morals, you write as if your belief in God is the only thing keeping you from acting like an animal. That is worrying to me. I believe morale is a capacity we have evolved (we have a moral center in the brain), something which lets us live together and cooperate in societies, something that helps us emotionally judge and distance ourselves from those who are morally weak and would exploit us or hurt society. As such, it is a capacity all healthy humans have, hence we're not reduced to "simple animals" without faith in a religion (not to mention many animals have morals too).

You believe that youth is worse off now than ever from a moral point of view. Actually, that depends. People don't hit their kids as much as they did back in the days. Modern men in western society don't hurt their wives as much as they used to either. Punishment is not as cruel in our society as it used to be. The general appreciation and percieved importance of human rights have only increased over the years. Most of the stuff you think is so wicked about modern society is stuff that has come about because people are more free than they used to be. I don't think anything that limits your freedom according to religion is automatically more right. I think morale should be more about how we can happily coexist, for example without hurting eachother.

I bet you're the kind of guy who will defend thrashing children "for their own good" while you'd happily condemn someone to hell for wearing a short skirt. That, to me, is morally awful and weak. The kind who will hit their wives for not behaving right according to some percieved idea from the book. Thankfully for me, there's been a decrease in that kind of people and that helps make society morally better.

The Catholic's Church official approval of the Theory of Evolution is scandalous. Not only because this theory is pure speculation and also not proven and also disproved by its greatest 'followers' like Darwin and Huxley among others as I have provided with the direct names of the books, publications, articles, the page numbers and so on, but also because its going hand in hand with those who want to explain this universe without God.
If from the outset you claim that God had nothing to do with the creation of the universe, and you even claim that God doesn’t exist to begin with, I find it heretical and down rite shameful for any institution that claims to be religious to join hand in hand with those who hate God, and be sure that these scientists hate god and religion, as Sir Arthur Keith said :" Evolution is unproved and unprovable. We believe it only because the only alternative is special creation, and that is unthinkable".

The human being has a greater opportunity to reach spiritual heights then the angels because angels do not have 'choice' they do as they are told, but humans have both the good and the bad inclinations, and when they struggle and choose goodness instead of evilness then their reward is way more higher and greater.

Did anyone achieve this?

The entire Torah is filled with this, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Joseph and the other 11 Tribes , such as Reuben Shimon, Levi, Judah, Benjamin and so on. Also Moses, his disciple Joshua, Aaron and his two Sons, Elezar and Itamar, then King Saul and King David and his Son King Solomon, and the Prophets of Israel such as Samuel, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Amos, Joel, Elijah and Nathan among others, and the Great Talmudic Sages such as Rabbi Akiva, Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochi the author of the Zohar, Rabbi Yossi, Rabbi Hillel, Rabbi Shamai, Rabbi Jonathan the Son of Uziel and so on.

Not only these Great Men surpassed any angel, but they have surpassed nature itself, and were able to do miracles. For example in the Torah it says that when the Jews were rescued by God from the hands of the Egyptians and they came to the Red Sea, the sea didn’t want to part in front of Moses, but when it saw the Bones of Joseph, it right away parted.

As you might know, Joseph made the Jewish people swear that when the God of Israel will redeem them, they should carry his remains back to his city 'Shechem' in Israel and not leave him in Egypt, so when the Red Sea saw the Arch of Joseph, it ran away from it and parted in front of the Children of Israel.

What is the connection between the sea parting and Joseph's Arch?

This world and the human being is made up of 4 elements, Fire, Wind, Dust and Water. All human characteristics are connected to these 4 elements. When a person is lazy, this is connected to Dust, as it pulls him down towards the ground, and therefore he is lazy. Anger is connected to fire, Wind is connected to arrogance, and water is the root of all desires.

In the Torah Joseph is described as 'Joseph the Righteous' because he was able to win over the inclination of having relations with the wife of Potifar when she was seducing him every day and every night while he was a servant in the house of Potifar. She had immense beauty, and he was all alone, the only Jew in a nation that worshiped abominations and promiscuity and impurity. Nevertheless he never forgot what his Great father Jacob had taught him, and he remained a God fearing man and righteous in a sea of wickedness and evilness. Thus Joseph was able to subdue the desires that were rooted and connected to the element of 'WATER' and thus when the Sea that is made of water saw Joseph's arch, it couldn’t but part because when a person masters these 4 elements that are found in him, he then can master nature itself, this is the power that is given to human beings, and this is what every human being can reach, as the famous Jewish teaching says : Every person can be as righteous as Moses or as wicked as Pharaoh', the choice is there for everyone to take.

As to hating one's self and as to 'been moral', well any human being that agrees to the awful vituperation of been called an ape , hates himself in one way or another, for naturally when someone approaches you and he says extreme insults, you get upset and angry and want to defend yourself and your dignity, but what has happened with this 'Ape thing' why people are not getting insulted for it is the worst that a person can call you, the worst.

As to morals,

True morality is only what God says, not what an individual or a number of people or a particular society decided to be. So, if you are not doing what God wants you to do, you are an immoral person, only when you do what he expects you to do then you become a righteous person.

The Torah considers those who don’t believe in God to be wicked.
So you can be a 'moral atheist' that is nice to your neighbors and smiles at people and friends, and gives charity and clothes the naked, and feeds the poor, but if you missed the entire main point which is to recognize God as your master and as the Master of all things and the entire universe, then according to God, you are wicked. And remember there is absolutely no room for atheists in heaven or in the World to come, and that includes Jews who don’t believe in God. Been a Jew is not a free ticket to enter heaven or have a share in the world to come, Judaism demands action, action of the mind and action of the body, that means in your mind you must believe in God, and to demonstrate this belief you must do physical actions that God wants you to do, and if you adhere to all of this, then you are called a Righteous.

As I said, to be righteous is a very daunting task, but its worth it to work on getting the right ticket to the train that Goes To heaven instead of jumping in the train that goes to hell. The train that goes to hell has lots of delicacies, great food and wine, beautiful women, abundance of entertainment, and many ways to 'Enjoy the Ride‘, this is the devil's doing, he is casting a darkness onto your eyes, telling you to enter his train, for its so tempting and so 'good', and the vast majority of people enter this train, but they don’t know that this train is only temporary, and its final destination is bitter and painful for eternity.

The other train is very modest, some bread and cheese, and simple water, you'll get laughed at and persecuted for your beliefs, would have to pass through many tests and obstacles, many confusions will be present, you will see things that will make you doubt in the existence of God, you will have to survive on little, and all along you will hear the great 'joy' coming out from the other 'comfortable' train that rides side by side next to your train.

This will make your ride even more doubtful and painful, but the only thing that comforts your body and soul is the fact that this train is the train that Goes to the Destination of Light and spiritual everlasting pleasure and goodness , enjoying the close proximity of God and been among his Righteous, sitting down with a crown on your head and been praised as one of God's true servants, and been given an honorary location within heaven, sitting down together with the Righteous and exploring and knowing God and growing in understanding of him.

I think that its worth it to suffer a little in this world, in order to reach home of your soul, for your soul in this world is only a guest, and it never finds true happiness here, but when its returned to its original root, where it was first created, there is a feeling of coming home, been next to God, and that is true happiness and enjoyment.

Regards,

Saul

**Janszoon** · 02-13-2011, 09:00 AM

So Maccabbe, did you join this music site simply to engage in nonsensical religious preaching or are you here to, you know, talk about music?

Howard the Duck · 02-13-2011, 09:06 AM

as I've reiterated over and over in other religious threads, evolution is merely a scientific paradigm subject to a shift but Creationism will never be that new paradigm - as there is not enough evidence or facts to back such a a theory

which means to say if you Christian "scientists" want to override evolution, you better start using your brains, instead of relying upon such lazy-a$$ explanations for life

02-13-2011, 09:00 AM	#799 (permalink)
Janszoon Mate, Spawn & Die Join Date: May 2007 Location: The Rapping Community Posts: 24,593	So Maccabbe, did you join this music site simply to engage in nonsensical religious preaching or are you here to, you know, talk about music? __________________ A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man Time & Place 25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die last.fm

02-12-2011, 10:29 PM	#791 (permalink)
RVCA （￣ー￣） Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,270

02-13-2011, 05:11 AM	#794 (permalink)
Howard the Duck Live by the Sword Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 9,075	i'm pretty much secularistic and Gnostic in terms of my Christian faith atheists will sort their life out in their own time

02-13-2011, 09:06 AM	#800 (permalink)
Howard the Duck Live by the Sword Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 9,075	as I've reiterated over and over in other religious threads, evolution is merely a scientific paradigm subject to a shift but Creationism will never be that new paradigm - as there is not enough evidence or facts to back such a a theory which means to say if you Christian "scientists" want to override evolution, you better start using your brains, instead of relying upon such lazy-a$$ explanations for life