This I Believe There is / is not a God

noise · 11-07-2009, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

When Darwin develope his "Evolution" hypothesis he didn't mean to replace God with natural occurring accidents and probablity. That was done by athiest who wanted to replace Christianity with Scientism.

bah! scientists don't want to replace anything - they simply want to discover the truth of things as they are presented. science has no agenda, and does not try to tell people how to think and act. it merely explains what is.

Neapolitan · 11-07-2009, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise

bah! scientists don't want to replace anything - they simply want to discover the truth of things as they are presented. science has no agenda, and does not try to tell people how to think and act. it merely explains what is.

bah? Apparently you didn't read what I wrote, I didn't say scientist wanted to replace anything.

noise · 11-07-2009, 12:58 AM

in this context, 'atheist' and 'scientist' are interchangeable...

delieterkop · 11-07-2009, 01:51 AM

Reading Neopolitan's post engages a Daffy Duck dialogue in my head. O.K. Daffy Duck, what are you going to try to say about Religion today? It's hard to take serious when its all quack quack quack.

Scientism relates to the scientific method, that truth is empirical, it does not mean they want to replace God with accidents. That makes very little sense. That is not atheism. Thank you.

Schizotypic · 11-07-2009, 01:56 AM

I believe I have a higher power. I have no idea what my higher power looks like, but he/she/it is what I want in a good friend. I chose to open myself up spiritually to a higher power that is like a good friend, and that is why he/she/it is like that. He/she/it is accepting, loving, guiding, and has a sense of humor.

I do two things with he/she/it: 1) I pray; I ask for things. Things like strength to make it through the day or strength for learning to love myself away from all my shame. 2) I meditate; I shut up, find my center, and listen. I like to think of it like a conversation, I talk and then listen. I do not like the idea of worship and I feel I, my higher power, and everything else has the same inherit value.

Out of prayer I usually find incentive that wasn't there before, not saying it is magic, but it does help me through this and that. Out of mediation I find a more centered place within myself and a sense of serenity and acceptance- even in the worst moments.

I do not mind using the word God in prayer. The word is used in multiple religions and no organized group or individual person can convince me I can't use the word- it is my ability and I believe my personal right. Here is an example of a prayer I say often: "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."

My feelings on many of the western religions I have come across are not positive ones. I have seen examples of Churches being money or power driven, and I do not like that- it makes me feel people are being sold false spirituality. I also do not like the idea of the threatening fires of hell. I also have a problem with many religions moral code. Such thoughts are mostly judgment and prejudice, and though I can't stop from feeling my feelings, I try to keep in mind that no two individuals are the same and I can never judge people based on their group.

Overall my stance is this: I have, communicate with, and love my own higher power. I feel atheist have every right to be atheist, Christians and every right to be Christians, and I have every right to my spirituality. I don't really wish to fight on it but if anybody has questions go ahead and ask em', I'd be more then happy to answer.

delieterkop · 11-07-2009, 02:04 AM

What it sounds to me like you're getting at is you exist. Just like the rest of us.

Schizotypic · 11-07-2009, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delieterkop

What it sounds to me like you're getting at is you exist. Just like the rest of us.

The point of that five paragraphs was that I have a higher power that is personal to me and that I use and gain from, and that is my belief. It was certainly not that I exist just like anybody else, although I do, that wasn't the point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise

belief is a finicky thing, and i think it's getting all twisted up in the title of this thread.

it's certainly possible to believe there is a god. i can't exactly relate to this belief, but i know plenty of people who do believe.

but to believe there is not a god? well that's just a waste of time. i can run around not-believing in flying pigs and all sorts of other oddities, but what's the point?

it's like the label 'atheism'. why should i define myself in terms of what i don't believe? if that's the way we roll, then i'm also an a-flyingpig-ist, along with an infinite number of other such absurd labels...

That was a great point. I think the word atheist is implying a strong stance against religion. Although on the other hand, with so many religions, non-believers should have something to respond with when asked "What religion are you?"

delieterkop · 11-07-2009, 01:41 PM

Well if I may pick at your philosophy, your 'higher power,' which you keep referring to, is something that you have devised with that magnificent contraption of yours known as the brain. Essentially, you are saying, I USE MY BRAIN. I EXIST. If not, please, clarify, because your higher power is bogus.

Schizotypic · 11-07-2009, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delieterkop

Well if I may pick at your philosophy, your 'higher power,' which you keep referring to, is something that you have devised with that magnificent contraption of yours known as the brain. Essentially, you are saying, I USE MY BRAIN. I EXIST. If not, please, clarify, because your higher power is bogus.

If my higher power is non-existent and false, then so is every other intangible concept. I'm pretty sure idea's are a noun by grammatical standard.

Okay, my decision making up to a certain point is terrible. One day I decide that everything I decide to do turns my life to rust, so I devise using my brain something of greater power then myself. I chose what I want this thing to be like and I make it as such. I then use it much like tool, or even better, like a good friend. Obviously this "higher power" does not exist.

After communicating with my newly created higher power for some time, I decide my will and my life is better in it's hands then mine. So I let go of everything and give it to something else, it actually is not so easy to do.. especially for me; I was very stubborn and valued strongly having control... even over things I did not have control over in the first place! Hahaha. So my higher power, who does not exist, now has an effect. The reasoning for this is that there is the capacity for better decision making, acceptance, and serenity where this "higher power idea" is applied when without it there is none of they above.

In some instances I cease to pray and meditate, and usually I have tried gaining control over a person, place, or thing that I really don't have control over before I get to the point of losing contact with my idea of a higher power. All times I have continued without any contact I immediately start again running my life without any acceptance or serenity. Once I feel the consequences of this I am forced to consider that I need this idea in my life.

As I said before, I don't know what this thing looks like and I chose what it's characteristics are. It is an imaginary friend that gives me something I would not have without it. I have tried to go on without it, thinking if it comes from me I could easily do so, but alas countless trial and error proves this wrong. I empathize with you if you have any frustration toward organized religion, I also have seen the damage it has done. My question to you is this: do you have a problem with me having a higher power? Honestly, do you? If so, what is it?

Neapolitan · 11-07-2009, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise

in this context, 'atheist' and 'scientist' are interchangeable...

I doubt it, let see

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise

bah!... atheist have no agenda, and do not try to tell people how to think and act.

Nope, it's not interchangeable.

11-07-2009, 12:58 AM	#353 (permalink)
noise thirsty ears Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Boulder Posts: 742	in this context, 'atheist' and 'scientist' are interchangeable... __________________ my flac collection

11-07-2009, 01:51 AM	#354 (permalink)
delieterkop Groupie Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: your top and you just can't get any higher Posts: 14	Reading Neopolitan's post engages a Daffy Duck dialogue in my head. O.K. Daffy Duck, what are you going to try to say about Religion today? It's hard to take serious when its all quack quack quack. Scientism relates to the scientific method, that truth is empirical, it does not mean they want to replace God with accidents. That makes very little sense. That is not atheism. Thank you. __________________ get jiggy with God brush your teeth with God

11-07-2009, 02:04 AM	#356 (permalink)
delieterkop Groupie Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: your top and you just can't get any higher Posts: 14	What it sounds to me like you're getting at is you exist. Just like the rest of us. __________________ get jiggy with God brush your teeth with God

11-07-2009, 01:41 PM	#358 (permalink)
delieterkop Groupie Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: your top and you just can't get any higher Posts: 14	Well if I may pick at your philosophy, your 'higher power,' which you keep referring to, is something that you have devised with that magnificent contraption of yours known as the brain. Essentially, you are saying, I USE MY BRAIN. I EXIST. If not, please, clarify, because your higher power is bogus. __________________ get jiggy with God brush your teeth with God

11-07-2009, 01:56 AM	#355 (permalink)
Schizotypic Souls of Sound Sailors Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Mojave Posts: 759	I believe I have a higher power. I have no idea what my higher power looks like, but he/she/it is what I want in a good friend. I chose to open myself up spiritually to a higher power that is like a good friend, and that is why he/she/it is like that. He/she/it is accepting, loving, guiding, and has a sense of humor. I do two things with he/she/it: 1) I pray; I ask for things. Things like strength to make it through the day or strength for learning to love myself away from all my shame. 2) I meditate; I shut up, find my center, and listen. I like to think of it like a conversation, I talk and then listen. I do not like the idea of worship and I feel I, my higher power, and everything else has the same inherit value. Out of prayer I usually find incentive that wasn't there before, not saying it is magic, but it does help me through this and that. Out of mediation I find a more centered place within myself and a sense of serenity and acceptance- even in the worst moments. I do not mind using the word God in prayer. The word is used in multiple religions and no organized group or individual person can convince me I can't use the word- it is my ability and I believe my personal right. Here is an example of a prayer I say often: "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference." My feelings on many of the western religions I have come across are not positive ones. I have seen examples of Churches being money or power driven, and I do not like that- it makes me feel people are being sold false spirituality. I also do not like the idea of the threatening fires of hell. I also have a problem with many religions moral code. Such thoughts are mostly judgment and prejudice, and though I can't stop from feeling my feelings, I try to keep in mind that no two individuals are the same and I can never judge people based on their group. Overall my stance is this: I have, communicate with, and love my own higher power. I feel atheist have every right to be atheist, Christians and every right to be Christians, and I have every right to my spirituality. I don't really wish to fight on it but if anybody has questions go ahead and ask em', I'd be more then happy to answer.