Indecision 2008 -what do you think????? (country, house, effect, show)

sleepy jack · 07-07-2008, 06:03 PM

John McCain. Because in all seriousness I think since George Bush got elected we've been going on a steady route to becoming the greatest, best country God has ever given man on the face of the earth and John McCain (unlike that nutcase Obama) wants to keep us on that route towards, well perfection.

Sparky · 07-07-2008, 10:28 PM

I've been weary of Obama ever since his use of what was later found out to be a "terrorist fist jab"

I'm keeping my eyes on you >: [

sleepy jack · 07-07-2008, 11:26 PM

I don't understand why in a time of War we'd elect someone with no military service whatsoever. I mean between Rove, Cheney and Bush we've got a well of experience to draw on I don't want some never seen combat newbie taking over.

bsmix · 07-08-2008, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepy jack

I don't understand why in a time of War we'd elect someone with no military service whatsoever. I mean between Rove, Cheney and Bush we've got a well of experience to draw on I don't want some never seen combat newbie taking over.

Which is why Obama should choose Gen. Wesley Clark as VP. I hope you are being sarcastic tho.

Son of JayJamJah · 07-08-2008, 08:58 AM

If anyone thinks there will be any difference between Bush and Obama or McCain other then media perception you've got a lot to learn about politics. I've seen nine US presidents since I've been here and they are all exactly the same once they get into office, they push for the lobbyists who back their party with the most money and try not make any decisions that will be immediately impactful so they do not have to address the American people if their initiative fails.

There are no more ignorant people in America then those who think Bush is an awful president, he just happens to be president at an awful time.

Piss Me Off · 07-08-2008, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayJamJah

If anyone thinks there will be any difference between Bush and Obama or McCain other then media perception you've got a lot to learn about politics. I've seen nine US presidents since I've been here and they are all exactly the same once they get into office, they push for the lobbyists who back their party with the most money and try not make any decisions that will be immediately impactful so they do not have to address the American people if their initiative fails.

There are no more ignorant people in America then those who think Bush is an awful president, he just happens to be president at an awful time.

I know that's very true with UK politics as well. All the main parties are very similar, they differ only in name and reputation.

Son of JayJamJah · 07-08-2008, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piss Me Off

I know that's very true with UK politics as well. All the main parties are very similar, they differ only in name and reputation.

So it would seem. I spent the entirety of my 20's trying to fight what was becoming very clear, there just is no difference. You might like a persons personality more or less there might be a more charismatic speaker one year, maybe someone else has blue collar roots, but in the end you get some rich guy (or gal) who has been rich and in politics for so long that they have little concept (if any) of what it's like to be a part of the middle class let alone in poverty.

You need so much help getting into office that anyone would feel the pressure to return favors to those who got them there. So it's not like their bad people, they are just weak people. Getting elected requires you to lie, cheat and sometimes steal, there is no way around it. You have to say things you don't believe, lie to peoples faces when they ask you questions that are important to them and spend a portion of your money trying to ruin someones life with smear campaigns because that's what they're gonna do for you.

Anyone who knowingly signs up for this is either crazy or has loose ethics and morals, those type of people do not impact change.

bsmix · 07-08-2008, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayJamJah

If anyone thinks there will be any difference between Bush and Obama or McCain other then media perception you've got a lot to learn about politics. I've seen nine US presidents since I've been here and they are all exactly the same once they get into office, they push for the lobbyists who back their party with the most money and try not make any decisions that will be immediately impactful so they do not have to address the American people if their initiative fails.

There are no more ignorant people in America then those who think Bush is an awful president, he just happens to be president at an awful time.

Hey I agree American politics are ****ed and I'm not really a part of any party, but you're saying we would have gone to war even if a democrat had been in power for the last 8 years instead of Bush? Make us learned then. How was he not an awful president? Only one major terrorist attack? Ha I guess I'd argue that there is no one more ignorant than a person who thinks Bush was a decent president.

TheBig3 · 07-08-2008, 10:28 AM

This thread has gone from a fruitful exchange of ideas, making people analyze their beliefs and refine them to a pissing match bemoaning why the system hasn’t handed you perfect candidates. If anything that’s weak.

Politics is not for the weak at all. To hang in their day after day, for a cause you think is good (despite what you think) while the media, opponents and constituents rip you to shreds is harder than you could possibly imagine. If you had to bring together a country as divided as the states are right now, you’d do what it takes too. Lying, as Strauss once wrote, can be highly noble. It was once said that the administration knew of the Pearl Harbor plans and let it happen to convince the country WWII was a needed action to address. Would you have preferred us to stay isolated?

People see the system for all its flaws, for everything they don’t have and they give up, like a child expecting to be handed things by their mother and when it isn’t, the go pout. The world is ugly friends, and the machines and levels that run are by proxy also ugly, but someone needs to do the dirty work. And when they do what they must to achieve and end, we look at them and we chastise them for a job we could not do, and a task we’d never take.

Maybe I’m a fan boi, and so my opinion shouldn’t count but I’ve worked on two campaigns now, I’m looking at a third this fall, and the cushy offices and kickbacks you read about in papers and see in films never manage to show the godless campaigning these people have to do, knocking on doors of people their trying to help, never knowing if this will be the house that got screwed by your policies and screams at you. They never show the 5 seconds you have from that door to the next where you have to pick yourself back up because for the next person, you’re the only hope they have left that someone might allot them the money to get medicine for the kids and pay the rent. That keeps the jobs in our hands and not the beaten children of the third world.

Maybe you don’t like politics and maybe it isn’t for you. But don’t tell me how it is. Some people see the flaws and try to fix them, and some just quit. For me I understand that the risks of giving up are too grave to ever turn my back on those who day in and day out can’t tell where life will take them.
For every story of greedy and lust that comes out, there are countless politicians and the state and municipal level that wake up every day for everyone else. They don’t get any air time because you’d be uninterested. But their out there, and they could use one less kick once in awhile.

Expletive Deleted · 07-08-2008, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

This thread has gone from a fruitful exchange of ideas, making people analyze their beliefs and refine them to a pissing match bemoaning why the system hasn’t handed you perfect candidates. If anything that’s weak.
Politics is not for the weak at all. To hang in their day after day, for a cause you think is good (despite what you think) while the media, opponents and constituents rip you to shreds is harder than you could possibly imagine. If you had to bring together a country as divided as the states are right now, you’d do what it takes too. Lying, as Strauss once wrote, can be highly noble. It was once said that the administration knew of the Pearl Harbor plans and let it happen to convince the country WWII was a needed action to address. Would you have preferred us to stay isolated?

People see the system for all its flaws, for everything they don’t have and they give up, like a child expecting to be handed things by their mother and when it isn’t, the go pout. The world is ugly friends, and the machines and levels that run are by proxy also ugly, but someone needs to do the dirty work. And when they do what they must to achieve and end, we look at them and we chastise them for a job we could not do, and a task we’d never take.

Maybe I’m a fan boi, and so my opinion shouldn’t count but I’ve worked on two campaigns now, I’m looking at a third this fall, and the cushy offices and kickbacks you read about in papers and see in films never manage to show the godless campaigning these people have to do, knocking on doors of people their trying to help, never knowing if this will be the house that got screwed by your policies and screams at you. They never show the 5 seconds you have from that door to the next where you have to pick yourself back up because for the next person, you’re the only hope they have left that someone might allot them the money to get medicine for the kids and pay the rent. That keeps the jobs in our hands and not the beaten children of the third world.

Maybe you don’t like politics and maybe it isn’t for you. But don’t tell me how it is. Some people see the flaws and try to fix them, and some just quit. For me I understand that the risks of giving up are too grave to ever turn my back on those who day in and day out can’t tell where life will take them.
For every story of greedy and lust that comes out, there are countless politicians and the state and municipal level that wake up every day for everyone else. They don’t get any air time because you’d be uninterested. But their out there, and they could use one less kick once in awhile.

QFT.

JayJamJah, I see some of what you're saying, but you just sound really jaded if you honestly believe that Bush was just "president at an awful time."

View Poll Results: Who will it be?
Obama	42	79.25%
McCain	5	9.43%
**** you RezZ, I'm not telling you!	6	11.32%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

07-08-2008, 10:28 AM	#9 (permalink)
TheBig3 killedmyraindog Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 11,246	This thread has gone from a fruitful exchange of ideas, making people analyze their beliefs and refine them to a pissing match bemoaning why the system hasn’t handed you perfect candidates. If anything that’s weak. Politics is not for the weak at all. To hang in their day after day, for a cause you think is good (despite what you think) while the media, opponents and constituents rip you to shreds is harder than you could possibly imagine. If you had to bring together a country as divided as the states are right now, you’d do what it takes too. Lying, as Strauss once wrote, can be highly noble. It was once said that the administration knew of the Pearl Harbor plans and let it happen to convince the country WWII was a needed action to address. Would you have preferred us to stay isolated? People see the system for all its flaws, for everything they don’t have and they give up, like a child expecting to be handed things by their mother and when it isn’t, the go pout. The world is ugly friends, and the machines and levels that run are by proxy also ugly, but someone needs to do the dirty work. And when they do what they must to achieve and end, we look at them and we chastise them for a job we could not do, and a task we’d never take. Maybe I’m a fan boi, and so my opinion shouldn’t count but I’ve worked on two campaigns now, I’m looking at a third this fall, and the cushy offices and kickbacks you read about in papers and see in films never manage to show the godless campaigning these people have to do, knocking on doors of people their trying to help, never knowing if this will be the house that got screwed by your policies and screams at you. They never show the 5 seconds you have from that door to the next where you have to pick yourself back up because for the next person, you’re the only hope they have left that someone might allot them the money to get medicine for the kids and pay the rent. That keeps the jobs in our hands and not the beaten children of the third world. Maybe you don’t like politics and maybe it isn’t for you. But don’t tell me how it is. Some people see the flaws and try to fix them, and some just quit. For me I understand that the risks of giving up are too grave to ever turn my back on those who day in and day out can’t tell where life will take them. For every story of greedy and lust that comes out, there are countless politicians and the state and municipal level that wake up every day for everyone else. They don’t get any air time because you’d be uninterested. But their out there, and they could use one less kick once in awhile. __________________ I've moved to a new address Last edited by TheBig3; 07-08-2008 at 11:39 AM.

07-07-2008, 10:28 PM	#2 (permalink)
Sparky not really Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 5,223	I've been weary of Obama ever since his use of what was later found out to be a "terrorist fist jab" I'm keeping my eyes on you >: [

07-08-2008, 08:58 AM	#5 (permalink)
Son of JayJamJah Occams Razor Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: End of the Earth Posts: 2,472	If anyone thinks there will be any difference between Bush and Obama or McCain other then media perception you've got a lot to learn about politics. I've seen nine US presidents since I've been here and they are all exactly the same once they get into office, they push for the lobbyists who back their party with the most money and try not make any decisions that will be immediately impactful so they do not have to address the American people if their initiative fails. There are no more ignorant people in America then those who think Bush is an awful president, he just happens to be president at an awful time.