TheBig3

well i'm not sure what you see it partisan allgeiance much these days. The last two presidents, current and former both deviated heavily from their partys agenda. If it wasn't free trade, it was amnesty for illegal immigrants.

I don't suppose Murtha and Liberman being in the same party means too much I guess. The same can be said for Kucinich.

They disagreed on healthcare, they disagreed on how the party should handle the war. Disagreeing views on Florida and Michigan.

Cynasism is the easy road and the easy argument because nothigns ever going to be perfect. But sitting there and claiming the system sucks and not doing anything about it is worse.

Theres nothing wrong with these candidates, their just under the lights now and their being scurtinized. Don't think the representative from Ohio or Texas would be any different if they managed to be halfway decent contenders.

I happen to be amazingly please with the Democratic ticket as of Friday and its gotten to the point that I may take up grassroots work on the weekend for that ticket.

McCain will likely select Ridge and implode.

Hating the system is boring and juvinile in my mind. I'm sure that opinion is slightly offensive but its my opinion.

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Son of JayJamJah

If you don't think partisan allegiance is the driving force behind modern politics then you fail greatly to understand the basics of the system. Only by catering to your constituency and the mainliners in your party can you get the nomination.

Obama was an exciting, independent and logical thinking senator on the rise 2 years ago, he could boast having no connections to any lobbyist organizations and was outspoken against lobbyist politics. Now he has selected Joe Biden as his running mate, why because the polls suggest his major flaws are inexperience and peoples lack of comfort with his religious background.

I'm guessing your young, probably in your twenties and like you mentioned in closing, not to sound dismissive or condescending, but set through 5 or 6 more elections, watch the names and faces change but the actions stay the same and then tell me if you still think there is anything more then an ideological difference between the two.

You can look at it as cynical and it is, but the crux of my argument is based in fact and logic not in emotion or bitterness.

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Double X

I've never heard of that, great info JJJ

WaspStar

I don't know if there's even much of an ideaological difference! Obama (and Gore, and Clinton, and Dukasis, etc. before him) continue to move towards the center as election day approaches. But I pretty much agree with you: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss!

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TheBig3

So whats wrong with taking someone that has a skill set you're lacking?

Pick a party and look at the last three presidents from each of them. Little is similar in their approach to anything. Even Bush, who wanted so badly to be Reagan, mandated so much from the executive that he became in most occurences the anti-reagan. A reporter once asked "what would reagan think of government intervention stopping stem cell research." William Buckley said about 41 "he's conservative but he's not a conservative."

Never mind Nixon.

And the Democrats are much more startiling. Clinton, Carter, Johnson?

You have a man who practiced conservative economics, a man who is the icon for the middle east peace process, and a warhawk who was the biggest washington insider of his time.

I'm still not getting it. Show me where I'm wrong.

As for catering to any given constituency, thats where you greatly fail to understand the basics of the system. Their parties base is courted in primaries and abandoned in Gen. Elections.

All the successful politicians know "your fringe base has no where to go. That eases up only slightly when we move toward the center."

This is the only election a pro-choice person might vote for someone who's pro-life, and thats only because these nutjub Clinton supporters are still "fighting the good fight." But 9 times out of 10 any one who supports a liberal agenda is ignored by the Democrats because their never going to support a republican.

In fact the thing they don't do is support a partisan agenda.

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sleepy jack

You know whats pissing me off? This house business, this is such a nonstory. The rich elitism now is almost entirely found on the left. From the Jay Rockefellers to the John Kerrys to the Pelosis. I mean Pelosi is a multimillionairess with her husband. She's got all kinds of homes. This business that they're still focusing on McCain on this, just classic, just classic the way the media just pumps this stuff up and tries to make a story out of it to try to help Obama, because it's such a nonstory. McCain doesn't own the properties. McCain doesn't go to them. One thing you can say about McCain, the last number of years he may have married a wealthy woman, but he has not advanced his lifestyle at all. He does not avail himself of the opportunities to go to all these houses and so forth. In fact, there's an interesting contrast. McCain is not a slumlord, he wasn't vacationing. He goes to the Sedona place, they sold the big house in Phoenix and bought a condo when the kids were gone. His primary residence is a condo in Virginia. He doesn't even live in DC.

I recently read a study the other day about Obama's family tree, and so far they've been able to count eight half siblings of Obama. One of them was George Hussein Obama found in the hut in Kenya, outside Nairobi, and we found that old George Hussein Obama is living on less than a dollar a month. I also found out that one of McCain's houses, a condo, is one that they provide for an elderly aunt of Mrs. McCain's. How come Barack can't send his half-brother a $20 bill and almost double the guy's annual income. A $20 bill would almost double his brother's annual income, and McCain said to be so out of touch with the common man, uses one of his houses to house an elderly aunt. So they're asking all these questions of McCain on his houses. Okay, I got some questions for Obama. How many huts and ramshackle shacks do your blood relatives own or live in? Have you helped with payments or cosigned bank notes for any of those huts, thatched or otherwise? If your hut-owning relatives ask you for a loan to make an addition to their hut or to build an outhouse, would you be willing to spend the five dollars necessary for an add-on? Obama, what would be an appropriate hut-warming gift for a half-brother or grandmother? A mosquito net? Cortisone cream for bug bites? A waterproof deck of cards? Please tell us, sir. You've had to deal with these questions as your half siblings have moved into new huts and quarters around the world. How does one go about, Obama, addressing a Christmas card for a close relative that is a hut dweller? Do they have an address, some kind of GPS coordinates to give FedEx? Does FedEx go to any of the huts where your half siblings live? Senator Obama, oh great Messiah of Hope, would it be in poor taste for you to send a sign to your blood relatives to hang in their hut that says "Hut, Sweet Hut"? These are legitimate questions, these are damn legitimate questions. Let me tell you something After you send the sign that says, "Hut, Sweet Hut," if you haven't done that, why haven't you lifted a finger to help these half siblings raise their standard of living? Do they like living in abject poverty?

What about, Senator Obama, the least among us? Does George Hussein Obama hope for change? Does he hope for an outhouse? Does he hope for some plumbing? Does he hope that he doesn't have to walk a half mile to get a cup of water that is not sanitized, Senator Obama? Does your half-brother George Hussein Obama long for cable TV? We know, Senator, he gets newspapers from somewhere because there are pictures of you posted on one of the walls of the hut. Senator Obama, do your half siblings living in huts all over the world look to you for answers? Do they look to you for hope? Do they look to you for change? By his own admission, your half-brother, George Hussein Obama, has lived in this hut for years, with no change in his life whatsoever, and he is your half-brother! And you're running on "Change." At least, Senator Obama, have the compassion of Castro. At least send your brother, George Hussein Obama, a rice cooker.

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Traveling Bandsman

This is why I believe Obama will win the election, barring any opinion about him that I have.

1. He young and has ambition
2. He's not a Republican
3. People are too set into thinking McCain is Bush Term 3
4. He talks about change and a new happy future of Washington and the world
5. He's not a Republican

Son of JayJamJah

you are one interesting kid Ethan.

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If you're posting in the music forums make sure to be thoughtful and expressive, if you're posting in the lounge ask yourself "is this something that adds to the conversation?" It's important to remember that a lot of people use each thread. You're probably not as funny or clever as you think, I know I'm not.

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ProggyMan

Obama's campaign has been horribly mismanaged so far...He should be well ahead and yet...

joderu95

I always go with what the Beard recommends too.

It tells you everything you need to know about a site when they choose to include something so trivial and meaningless.

I suppose Pinochet said the same for Nixon.

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