The Wow I Can't Believe That News Story Thread

[[MERIT]]

Originally Posted by Frownland

Besides for "freeeeedom", what do businesses lose when they're not allowed to discriminate against customers?

They lose their free will.

Originally Posted by Frownland

What do individuals lose when they are discriminated against?

Time? Energy wasted whilst failing to obtain a good or service.

Originally Posted by Frownland

Which one of those is the bigger or more important loss?

Free will vs Time & Energy. All are important, but I will go with free will.

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by Trollheart

You said doctor. EVERY DOCTOR has to swear to, and abide by, the H.O.

They actually aren't, it's just an industry standard. It's largely reflected in modern malpractice laws, but nobody is really required to take the oath.

Originally Posted by [MERIT]

They lose their free will.

I already mentioned that. Anything else?

Time? Energy wasted whilst failing to obtain a good or service.

And access to those services. In a life or death situation, that could mean losing their life.

Free will vs Life. All are important, but I will go with free will.

Fixed that for you in light of recent developments. Does it still hold true? Also where does equality rank on your goody scale?

[[MERIT]]

Originally Posted by Trollheart

You said doctor. EVERY DOCTOR has to swear to, and abide by, the H.O. So maybe you're trying to backpedal or move the goalposts here, but it won't work. If you mean doctor, as you said, then there is no middle ground: it's black and white. If you're a doctor, you are bound to treat your patients under the oath which you freely (were not forced to) swore to. That simple, really.

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on the Hippocratic Oath or contracts into which doctors enter. If they CHOOSE to take an oath that forbids them from discriminating, then they should not be allowed to discriminate. Keep your word.

Should a doctor be REQUIRED to swear such an oath? I say NO.

What if a person breaks into your house, rapes your wife and murders your kids. The cops show up and shoot him. You are the surgeon on hand. Do you want to operate and try to save his life? Your oath says that you have to. But you might be re-thinking that oath in such a situation.

[Trollheart]

[MERIT] you win: in the face of such intransigence and constantly moving the goalposts around, strawman arguments, flip-flopping and more that has just confused and frustrated the hell out of me, I give up. I'll leave you to the mercy of the man I have to admit is one of the best debaters on this forum. May you die honourably.

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by Trollheart

[MERIT] you win: in the face of such intransigence and constantly moving the goalposts around, strawman arguments, flip-flopping and more that has just confused and frustrated the hell out of me, I give up. I'll leave you to the mercy of the man I have to admit is one of the best debaters on this forum. May you die honourably.

I'm pretty sure that logic doesn't work on him tbh. I'm gonna try to repeat that my opinions and assumptions are stone-cold facts while interspersing irrelevant hypothetical scenarios that support my view, that might sway him.

[[MERIT]]

Originally Posted by elphenor

imagine hypothetically this is the only cake shop there is, does the right to discriminate still hold up?

It's not the only bakery, that's the point. Why are the 2 gays suing the bakery instead of just going to a different one? What is their goal? Is this particular bakery THE BEST one with the most delicious cakes that cannot be replicated elsewhere? I highly doubt it. The customers just want to be assholes.

And to answer your question, that depends if the bakery is a privately owned and operated company or a publicly funded institution. If it is a privately owned bakery, then yes, they have the right to discriminate [though, I would advise against it, as it is a stupid business practice]. If it is PUBLIC/GOVERNMENT funded, then it should cater to everyone.

Originally Posted by elphenor

consider things like employment discrimination, homosexuals don't get to work at the cake shop?

Same answer as above.

[[MERIT]]

Can we all agree that you do not have the right to someone else's labor, against their will? Yes or no?

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by [MERIT]

It's not the only bakery, that's the point.

Not in this hypothetical scenario. What now?

[[MERIT]]

Originally Posted by Trollheart

[MERIT] you win: in the face of such intransigence and constantly moving the goalposts around, strawman arguments, flip-flopping and more that has just confused and frustrated the hell out of me, I give up. I'll leave you to the mercy of the man I have to admit is one of the best debaters on this forum. May you die honourably.

No, I don't win. I am just as frustrated as you are. And you can leave the brackets off my name when referring to me. Makes it easier for everyone.

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by [MERIT]

Can we all agree that you do not have the right to someone else's labor, against their will? Yes or no?

Depends on the context. Random person on the street? No. Business that serves the public that you in turn pay for like any other customer? Absolutely. Making your services available to the public is a promise unto itself that businesses need to fulfill.Throw em in the gulag if they refuse.