I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on the Hippocratic Oath or contracts into which doctors enter. If they CHOOSE to take an oath that forbids them from discriminating, then they should not be allowed to discriminate. Keep your word.

Should a doctor be REQUIRED to swear such an oath? I say NO.

What if a person breaks into your house, rapes your wife and murders your kids. The cops show up and shoot him. You are the surgeon on hand. Do you want to operate and try to save his life? Your oath says that you have to. But you might be re-thinking that oath in such a situation.

[MERIT] you win: in the face of such intransigence and constantly moving the goalposts around, strawman arguments, flip-flopping and more that has just confused and frustrated the hell out of me, I give up. I'll leave you to the mercy of the man I have to admit is one of the best debaters on this forum. May you die honourably.

I'm pretty sure that logic doesn't work on him tbh. I'm gonna try to repeat that my opinions and assumptions are stone-cold facts while interspersing irrelevant hypothetical scenarios that support my view, that might sway him.

It's not the only bakery, that's the point. Why are the 2 gays suing the bakery instead of just going to a different one? What is their goal? Is this particular bakery THE BEST one with the most delicious cakes that cannot be replicated elsewhere? I highly doubt it. The customers just want to be assholes.

And to answer your question, that depends if the bakery is a privately owned and operated company or a publicly funded institution. If it is a privately owned bakery, then yes, they have the right to discriminate [though, I would advise against it, as it is a stupid business practice]. If it is PUBLIC/GOVERNMENT funded, then it should cater to everyone.

Same answer as above.

Can we all agree that you do not have the right to someone else's labor, against their will? Yes or no?

Not in this hypothetical scenario. What now?

No, I don't win. I am just as frustrated as you are. And you can leave the brackets off my name when referring to me. Makes it easier for everyone.

Depends on the context. Random person on the street? No. Business that serves the public that you in turn pay for like any other customer? Absolutely. Making your services available to the public is a promise unto itself that businesses need to fulfill.Throw em in the gulag if they refuse.

Okay guys, we can do hypothetical scenarios out the wazoo, but we're getting nowhere. We can either agree to disagree that you are not entitled to the labor of another person against their will, or we can keep arguing. You're coming at it from a gender/sex rights POV and I'm coming from a basic civil liberties view.

I can bottom line this. THE BAKERY WAS WRONG FOR DENYING THE GAY COUPLE A WEDDING CAKE. But, it should be the bakery's right to make the call.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

What if someone shoplifts from your store? Do you have the right to deny them entry henceforth?