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10-10-2017, 08:01 AM | #7241 (permalink) | ||
Music Addict
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I'm a cynical guy too, but this kind of cynicism isn't helpful. It also doesn't appear to be true. This kind of cynicism removes agency. It tells people, 'don't try, because the result are predetermined'. Truman defeated Dewey. Bush defeated Gore. Abortion rights were granted and preserved. The Civil Rights Act was passed. Clean Air, Clean Water, the Renewable Fuel Standard, the Environmental Protection Agency, NAFTA, NATO, etc etc etc. All of these things have made us safer, wealthier, and healthier. Has it been a straight line? No. Has the broad trend of history resulted in a better society? Yes. Has representative democracy been largely responsible for these gains? Also yes. Why? AGENCY. I think part of this the media distortion about Washington D.C.'s importance. Hardly any governing worth doing emanates from Washington, and I say this as a liberal. It's about getting a speed bump in your home town, or keeping the local library open on Saturday. Hell, it's increasing the funding for your local library. I've volunteered on local and state election campaigns and have seen first hand the value of participating in the system, especially when it's local. Anecdotal to be sure, but everyone here is making sweeping statements about how voting is for fools. I feel obligated to point out the benefits of actually giving a damn. Quote:
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10-10-2017, 08:12 AM | #7242 (permalink) |
Ask me how!
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: The States
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I didn't say that changes don't happen. I said that changes only happen when the wealthy find a way to make a profit out of progress. How far did abolitionists get before wealthy northerners hopped on board to stick it to the south?
I also didn't say that democracy should be abolished. Just our bipartisan dynamic, which could easily be curbed by limiting the amount of money that can legally be stuffed into politician's pockets. Yet despite all the changes you mentioned, and how far we've come, isn't it funny that gigantic "political donations" are still legal, and that almost no candidates are against them? I really want to believe you, and be as optimistic as you, but maybe my personal experiences have just made me too jaded. Also, thanks for mentioning Bush v. Gore, when the winner of the popular vote lost. Edit: And also when ballot tampering became hilariously apparent.
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10-10-2017, 08:18 AM | #7243 (permalink) | |
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I am in favor of repealing Citizens United by the way. Best way for this to happen is constant, unyielding political pressure from the common people, like you and I. Thanks for engaging, always happy to have a friendly argument.
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10-10-2017, 08:20 AM | #7244 (permalink) |
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Ciao mate. Btw, I didn't say that people shouldn't try. By all means, fight for what you believe in. I just think that in the end, in our current political climate, the act of voting is less important than the art we create to affect others, and the way we treat others.
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10-10-2017, 08:39 AM | #7245 (permalink) |
one-balled nipple jockey
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dirty Souf Biatch
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My answer is (the point of what I did) is that even though the things you fear about anarchism if it should materialize might be justified concerns (it wouldn't be a utopia) but from my vantage point what's already in place is many times more horrific. Most people don't agree or haven't really thought about it. There's an infinity of ain't gonna happens but nonetheless something will happen. Perhaps the continuation of the status quo. The destruction of the environment, nuclear war, or some other disaster. I have a less likely but more pleasant scenerio in my head where writers like Thoreau and Tolstoy became a standard moral compass an we make it through. Idealistic? Sure. But we got a gun to our head. I know this is a failure. I think the path we're on is so destructive that this whole way of living needs to be scraped.
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10-10-2017, 08:42 AM | #7246 (permalink) | |||
A.B.N.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NY baby
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Fame, fortune, power, titties. People say these are the most crucial things in life, but you can have a pocket full o' gold and it doesn't mean sh*t if you don't have someone to share that gold with. Seems simple. Yet it's an important lesson to learn. Even lone wolves run in packs sometimes. Quote:
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10-10-2017, 08:49 AM | #7247 (permalink) |
one-balled nipple jockey
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Thanks so much for voting dj.
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10-10-2017, 08:56 AM | #7248 (permalink) | |
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10-10-2017, 08:56 AM | #7249 (permalink) | |
Ask me how!
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To be fair, when I became old enough, I did try to vote. Obama v.s. Romney. I was turned away at the polling station for not being "properly registered". In the last election, I was considering voting for Sanders, but after he got pushed out I didn't feel like picking between a pile of crap and a pile of vomit. Maybe third time will be the charm.
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10-10-2017, 10:27 AM | #7250 (permalink) |
Born to be mild
Join Date: Oct 2008
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For centuries, Ireland was ruled from England. We had basically no rights and were subjects of the English monarch. The Famine came about largely because English landowners held all the power and could evict Irish workers if they couldn't pay rent, making them essentially slaves. If we hadn't gained our independence and obtained the right to govern ourselves we would probably still be under English rule.
As for the voting process, here it's not the same as your electoral college. Here, every single vote is counted, and it's infinitely possible to vote in some independent or local candidate into the government. Yes, we only have the three main parties, but the government is made up of the main party/parties and a coalition of independents, meaning that issues more important to the local candidates can be discussed. If nobody voted for these people, they would not be sitting in the Dail and power would rest entirely with the three main parties, which would not be good for anyone, other than them. Having independent candidates means that certain decisions can be blocked, certain issues forced through that otherwise would be ignored, or voted down.
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