The Wow I Can't Believe That News Story Thread

[Trollheart]

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Strawman

I never said all Muslims are terrorists.

But you never said they weren't.

[Goofle]

^ Basically what you're saying there is that everyone who makes a comment on anything needs to start with a preamble dictating the full complexities of every view they have and that making comments that include one group or another are not necessarily their views on every single person within that group.

Originally Posted by riseagainstrocks

But you keep saying ALL Muslims are terrorists. That ISLAM teaches murder...

...BUT THAT IS DIFFERENT THAN SAYING IF YOU FOLLOW ISLAM, YOU ARE A MONSTER. ****... how is this hard to understand?

Erm... I am pretty sure he hasn't said this once in any post I have ever read. And that's usually the case for anyone accused of what you're saying. I'm not sure why language is often misinterpreted to such a degree where people pretty much get to the point of making things up regarding what somebody says.

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by Goofle

Erm... I am pretty sure he hasn't said this once in any post I have ever read.

Not directly in this particular discussion, no. But he does have a history of making very bigoted statements about Muslims, as much as you do seem to love the misunderstood realist narrative.

[Trollheart]

Originally Posted by Goofle

^ Basically what you're saying there is that everyone who makes a comment on anything needs to start with a preamble dictating the full complexities of every view they have and that making comments that include one group or another are not necessarily their views on every single person within that group.



Erm... I am pretty sure he hasn't said this once in any post I have ever read. And that's usually the case for anyone accused of what you're saying. I'm not sure why language is often misinterpreted to such a degree where people pretty much get to the point of making things up regarding what somebody says.

Don't be silly Goof. What I'm saying is that he's going around saying "**** Islam" but he has never on any occasion said "not all Muslims are terrorists", while his rhetoric suggests exactly the opposite. He's never accepted it, so while he may not actually SAY that all muslims are terrorists, he hasn't stated any contrary belief. If he wants us not to think that he thinks all muslims are terrorists (if he doesn't in fact think this, which I believe he does but won't admit to) then he needs to qualify his statements by saying "well look I know all muslims aren't terrorists, but ...."

[Goofle]

Originally Posted by Frownland

Not directly in this particular discussion, no. But he does have a history of making very bigoted statements about Muslims, as much as you do seem to love the misunderstood realist narrative.

He's connecting dots between terrorist attacks and the ascribed religion of those people who commit the attacks. Maybe not in the most polite or subtle way, but it's pretty clear that his issue is with the ideas within the religion itself, and those who use that ideology as a platform to commit the attacks.

Not that anyone who follows the religion is a potential terrorist, evil person or whatever.

[Frownland]

He's quite consistently maintained that Islam only leads to negative situations and terrorism. Deny it all you like with the typical bases that bigots use to cover their asses, but that won't change anything.

[riseagainstrocks]

Originally Posted by Goofle

^ Basically what you're saying there is that everyone who makes a comment on anything needs to start with a preamble dictating the full complexities of every view they have and that making comments that include one group or another are not necessarily their views on every single person within that group.


Erm... I am pretty sure he hasn't said this once in any post I have ever read. And that's usually the case for anyone accused of what you're saying. I'm not sure why language is often misinterpreted to such a degree where people pretty much get to the point of making things up regarding what somebody says.

Not really. But when you (not you specifically, but the sentiment in this thread) say 'people from the Middle East are barbarians' (not an exact quote, but an accurate paraphrase), it's a good indicator that you're not being fair-minded when examining the political, social, historical, and religious inputs for a region that oscillates between bastion of human civilization and cradle for its possible destruction. I also think it's important to be kind of exact when talking about a general belief that's shared by over a billion people. That's why I refer to Salafism or Wahhabism when speaking about terrorists instead of Islam. They are different things. Literally a bigger ideological gap than Protestantism and Catholicism. It's about as big as the gap between Mennonites and Rastafarians. Technically the same god but with very different expectations of his worshipers.


I'll admit to shortcutting OccultHawk's statements over the past 5 months or so I've resumed posting on this board. I can't recall a direct statement to the effect of 'every single Muslim is a terrorist', but the tone of the majority of his posts on the subject is that terrorist violence is intrinsic to Islam. I don't think it's falling into reductio ad absurdum to say that his thinking necessarily leads to 'all followers of the Islamic faith are more susceptible to becoming terrorists than any other group as a direct result of their faith, to the exclusion of other factors'. Again, myself, duga, elphenor, and others have mapped out alternative or complementary explanations for the phenomenon of terrorism, showing that the common thread has more to do with poverty than anything else. The response is 'oh yeah, Islam totally has never done anything bad, to think so would make me a bigot, right?' which is not close to what I have been saying. It side-steps the counter-argument in favor of playing the 'mean liberals are calling me a bigot instead of just accepting that Islam is evil' card.

I think at this point I can literally just quote what I've written before. I've covered the issue. I've covered the criticism of the issue. I've covered the hysterics in response to the criticism of the issue and the posts that came after that too.

[OccultHawk]

I am bigoted against Islam and those who practice the faith. For the record, I have not and do not deny that. If that's your criteria for dismissing my views then we have no ground to stand on for debate. If you adhere to this belief system I think less of you. I do not think all Muslims are terrorists nor do I want my government to marginalize American Muslims. However, I'm going to openly say it's a bad religion.

[Blank.]

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

I am bigoted against Islam and those who practice the faith. For the record, I have not and do not deny that. If that's your criteria for dismissing my views then we have no ground to stand on for debate. If you adhere to this belief system I think less of you. I do not think all Muslims are terrorists nor do I want my government to marginalize American Muslims. However, I'm going to openly say it's a bad religion.

[OccultHawk]

I don't have an agenda of bigotry. I dislike all religions because they're stupid. I dislike Islam the most because this **** happens all the time. I think Mormonism is ridiculous and to believe in it is clearly stupid. But they're not in the news every couple weeks blowing **** up. I don't want to hate Muslims. And I don't. I hate Islam. What makes me a bigot is I do think less of a person for being a Muslim. I still take people on an individual basis. There's a lot of things that make a bad first impression and being a Muslim is one of them. I know a few Muslims irl and none of them are unpleasant. But if you can't drop that piece of **** religion at this point there's got to be something wrong with your intellect.