The Wow I Can't Believe That News Story Thread

[jadis]

On some definitions I guess I am: language is a crucial element in most nationalisms, though it also happens to be the only one I care about in this case.

The vast majority of Montreal anglos (there are distinctly working class Anglophone pockets in Quebec where it's not the case) have every opportunity to learn French yet choose to preserve their parochial monolinguism because they're damn proud of it. To me that's a much weirder choice than making the effort to learn a language that gives you access to both plenty of jobs and the prose stylings of Marcel Proust.

What makes Montreal special is the linguistic situation, a majority Francophone city on the margin of the most culturally hegemonic empire the world has ever known. That would be a shame to lose. Who needs another Toronto etc.

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by jadis

On some definitions I guess I am: language is a crucial element in most nationalisms, though it also happens to be the only one I care about in this case.

The vast majority of Montreal anglos (there are distinctly working class Anglophone pockets in Quebec where it's not the case) have every opportunity to learn French yet choose to preserve their parochial monolinguism because they're damn proud of it. To me that's a much weirder choice than making the effort to learn a language that gives you access to both plenty of jobs and the prose stylings of Marcel Proust.

What makes Montreal special is the linguistic situation, a majority Francophone city on the margin of the most culturally hegemonic empire the world has ever known. That would be a shame to lose. Who needs another Toronto etc.

So you're an effete university intellectual heaping scorn on the common folk who don't talk good. Charming.

[jadis]

This makes no sense if you know the first thing about Anglophones vs Francophones in Montreal but knock yourself out with this "material analysis"

[adidasss]

I have to be honest, I don't speak French but whenever I watch a movie in Quebecois French, it hurts my ears. Sounds like some kind of bastardized peasant version of French. I imagine the French are not very happy with how that turned out. :/

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by jadis

This makes no sense if you know the first thing about Anglophones vs Francophones in Montreal but knock yourself out with this "material analysis"

I'm going by your analysis, bud, but if they're not poor then I guess they don't need to learn French to get a decent job. They still need to if they want to read some Frenchie writer, cause learning a whole 'nother language for the sake of casual reading is a reasonable expectation to have.

Effete university intellectual is absolutely accurate though. Little tip if you don't want to out yourself as an undercover alien preparing the way for an invasion: don't use "parochial" while looking down on us ignorant humans.

[jadis]

Originally Posted by adidasss

I have to be honest, I don't speak French but whenever I watch a movie in Quebecois French, it hurts my ears. Sounds like some kind of bastardized peasant version of French. I imagine the French are not very happy with how that turned out. :/

Yeah it's very rarely singled out for its beauty and the peasant bit is not wrong... Though the irony is that its sounds are actually closer to French as it was spoken in certain regions of France in the 17th century compared to the Parisian French of today, which is the more recent evolution. Colonies are always more linguistically conservative than the metropolis, so if you want to hear some of the vowels that were part of various regional dialects in earlier French and have since disappeared in standard French, Canada is where you want to go (certain parts of New Brunswick too: Acadian French has some things in common with the French of Rabelais).

The vocabulary is of course way Americanized (despite inordinate pride in not saying le parking and le weekend like the French do) and you have varieties of both Quebecois and Acadian French that have been derided as bastardizations by speakers of both dialects.

[adidasss]

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I'm going by your analysis, bud, but if they're not poor then I guess they don't need to learn French to get a decent job. They still need to if they want to read some Frenchie writer, cause learning a whole 'nother language for the sake of casual reading is a reasonable expectation to have.

Effete university intellectual is absolutely accurate though. Little tip if you don't want to out yourself as an undercover alien preparing the way for an invasion: don't use "parochial" while looking down on us ignorant humans.

You're just butthurt because you're an ignorant American who doesn't speak a second language.

[adidasss]

Originally Posted by jadis

Yeah it's very rarely singled out for its beauty and the peasant bit is not wrong... Though the irony is that its sounds are actually closer to French as it was spoken in certain regions of France in the 17th century compared to the Parisian French of today, which is the more recent evolution. Colonies are always more linguistically conservative than the metropolis, so if you want to hear some of the vowels that were part of various regional dialects in earlier French and have since disappeared in standard French, Canada is where you want to go (certain parts of New Brunswick too: Acadian French has some things in common with the French of Rabelais).

The vocabulary is of course way Americanized (despite inordinate pride in not saying le parking and le weekend like the French do) and you have varieties of both Quebecois and Acadian French that have been derided as bastardizations by speakers of both dialects.

Interesting, something similar happened with Spanish and Portuguese. Although Brazilian Portuguese is one of the rare examples where the colonial version is actually significantly more beautiful than the original.

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by adidasss

You're just butthurt because you're an ignorant American who doesn't speak a second language.

You're just butthurt you had to learn English cause we own your bitchass.

[adidasss]

I'm not butthurt at all, I love English and languages in general and was lucky enough to live in a small and insignificant country where everything is subtitled which helped a lot in learning a few...