The Wow I Can't Believe That News Story Thread

[Trollheart]

I take your points OH (I may give them back but I'm short on points at the moment so bear with me), however I think it does have to be taken into account that the woman is now so very old and more to the point - she was a frigging secretary! Likelihood is that, yes, she typed up reports on so many thousands killed today etc, but for her it was just a job. Now I'm not going to advance the tired old defence "I was just following orders", which I never accept anyway. But as you yourself pointed out in another thread, or maybe this one, not sure - we'd all be collaborators in Nazi Germany. And if you're a girl of 21 and you're offered what might be seen as a plum post as secretary to the commandant of a concentration camp, would you refuse it? If you did, would you not bring suspicion upon yourself? Why is she turning the job down? Do we need to explore her loyalties, her family, her friends?

And at that age, right or wrong, 21 is just a kid. No 21-year-old German girl is going to be politically aware enough to know what she's doing is wrong. And is it wrong anyway? She's literally a pen-pusher: should she be held responsible because she had a job in a death factory? How much do we know about how much she knew about what went on?

I know it's hard to balance, but I just don't see the point. It's petty (in that sense) revenge. Different with Eichmann. Yes, he was in his eighties when hanged but he was a big wheel and personally responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands. BIG difference.

[The Batlord]

She was a secretary... in a concentration camp. Nobody forced her to do it. The Germans never shot any fellow Germans for not participating in genocide.

And so what she was just a secretary? She knew where she was. She knew her place in the scheme. She was a cog in a murder machine. **** her.

And **** rehabilitating her. Genocide is genocide and people who commit or are complicit with genocide almost never get brought to justice so ****ing hang them.

And I don't give a **** she's 94. Sorry, grandma. Shouldn't have been such a good German.

[Trollheart]

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Don’t Kill Grandma!

Seriously though maybe some stones would be better left unturned?

You got a link to this story? I'd like to read the full thing before I comment further.

[OccultHawk]

Originally Posted by Trollheart

I take your points OH (I may give them back but I'm short on points at the moment so bear with me), however I think it does have to be taken into account that the woman is now so very old and more to the point - she was a frigging secretary! Likelihood is that, yes, she typed up reports on so many thousands killed today etc, but for her it was just a job. Now I'm not going to advance the tired old defence "I was just following orders", which I never accept anyway. But as you yourself pointed out in another thread, or maybe this one, not sure - we'd all be collaborators in Nazi Germany. And if you're a girl of 21 and you're offered what might be seen as a plum post as secretary to the commandant of a concentration camp, would you refuse it? If you did, would you not bring suspicion upon yourself? Why is she turning the job down? Do we need to explore her loyalties, her family, her friends?

And at that age, right or wrong, 21 is just a kid. No 21-year-old German girl is going to be politically aware enough to know what she's doing is wrong. And is it wrong anyway? She's literally a pen-pusher: should she be held responsible because she had a job in a death factory? How much do we know about how much she knew about what went on?

I know it's hard to balance, but I just don't see the point. It's petty (in that sense) revenge. Different with Eichmann. Yes, he was in his eighties when hanged but he was a big wheel and personally responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands. BIG difference.

Well they’re not trying to execute her or paint her as the equivalent of Eichmann. Be careful that you don’t mischaracterize what’s taking place here.

[OccultHawk]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...mgard.amp.html

Woman, 95, Indicted on 10,000 Counts of Accessory to Murder in Nazi Camp

[OccultHawk]

This actually imo is a much more interesting story with similar ethical considerations:

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/04/96396...-of-war-crimes

Ugandan Child Soldier-Turned-Rebel Commander Is Convicted Of War Crimes

[Trollheart]

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Well they’re not trying to execute her or paint her as the equivalent of Eichmann. Be careful that you don’t mischaracterize what’s taking place here.

That's why I asked for the link. Thanks. I've read it now, and I don't see anything in it to change my opinion. Surely hundreds, even thousands of clerical workers were employed in concentration camps? What were they all to do? Revolt? Quit? People had to earn a living. I just don't see the need. I think it's all posturing and revenge-motivated, and in some ways could be compared to how the Nazis reacted as the camps were liberated, killing as many prisoners as they could before they were stopped. Doesn't the link say they want to "get as many of these as they can before they die"? It just sounds a little vindictive to me. What good is it going to do?

I'm all for high or even low-ranking officers, guards, anyone involved who would have had daily contact with the prisoners and known exactly what was going on to stand trial, but to paint all the workers with the one brush and assume that just because they were there they share the guilt, is in my own personal opinion wrong and unfair.

Of course, were I a Jew I might think differently. But I wonder.

By the way, before anyone jumps down my throat about the comment above re the killing of prisoners, I'm not in any way trying to say they're the same, just that the motivation for both acts could be seen to be similar. Obviously, again, I don't intend any offence and I don't take these matters lightly, but I don't see them as black-and-white-you-were-there-so-you're-guilty ones either. I think it's easy for us to make judgements when we have no clue what it was like to live as a German under Hitler. Who among us would not have worked in a camp if they needed the money? Be honest. And also, how do we know for sure that she was aware of what was going on, or at least the degree to which it was going on?

[The Batlord]

No I wouldn't work in a ****ing concentration camp.

[OccultHawk]

Surely hundreds, even thousands of clerical workers were employed in concentration camps? What were they all to do? Revolt? Quit?

Yes ffs. I’ve sacrificed and compromised my ability to make a living over moral issues.

You think I’d take a job at an ICE detention center? I’d ****ing starve or put a bullet in my head first. Believe that. Some things are more important than that next breath of air.

Life puts tough dilemmas in front of some people. This lady obviously had unfortunate circumstances but goddamn that’s not a “I’m just doing my job” type of situation.

[OccultHawk]

Originally Posted by The Batlord

No I wouldn't work in a ****ing concentration camp.

Church