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07-27-2020, 01:27 PM | #21571 (permalink) | |
No Ice In My Bourbon
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Quote:
I've known many and haven't met a single one that would support gunning down protestors, even if those protestors happened to differ politically with the free speech advocate. To that end, free speech does not find its advocates solely on one side of the political spectrum. The whole point of free speech is that without it, violence is the only solution. |
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07-27-2020, 01:30 PM | #21572 (permalink) |
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Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 4,403
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I don't support killing protesters.
I just don't understand why certain speech shouldn't be a crime if it's violence that is leading to actual deaths. You have a strange commitment to our particular Constitution for a communist revolutionary. |
07-27-2020, 01:46 PM | #21573 (permalink) | |
No Ice In My Bourbon
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Quote:
I don't know where you're getting the idea that free speech advocates have some ominous intersection with people who support cops in instances where black men are killed, this seems like a misdirection to me, and a highly specific one at that. What's your point here? And again, youre implying free speech advocates don't mind when protestors are murdered - you're free to have arguments with people you've imagined that you understand, but it doesn't do much to illuminate or reinforce your point of view to others. |
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07-27-2020, 01:50 PM | #21574 (permalink) |
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@ elph
It's just strange since you seem like you're appealing to consequentialist logic for silencing Nazis online yet I feel these same arguments could be and in fact are made to defend hate speech laws as well. I'm not even saying it's a bad thing. It really depends on your priorities. I can see the utility in both TOS and hate speech laws. And I see no inclination that in Europe they're descending down the slippery slope to authoritarianism through these sorts of laws so aside from the first amendment I guess I don't understand why it would be any different here. |
07-27-2020, 01:58 PM | #21575 (permalink) | |
SOPHIE FOREVER
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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. |
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07-27-2020, 02:12 PM | #21576 (permalink) | |
No Ice In My Bourbon
Join Date: Mar 2010
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I'll have to take your word on the Gamergate stuff, I'm not familiar with that. Cheeky. To elph's credit, this is probably what he meant. But he didn't call them "self-proclaimed free speech advocates" - he didn't make that delineation at all. As a result, it sounded like conflation. |
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07-27-2020, 02:36 PM | #21578 (permalink) | |
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Plus you have the Klan and Neo Nazis able to demonstrate in public with police protection... I think it's fairly easy to make a consequentialist case that this also is ultimately harmful. Yes it's more potent to use online platforms but that just reinforces the idea that censoring people through corporate TOS is more powerful and more effective than doing so through hate speech laws, not that hate speech laws are necessarily beyond the pale. Also, since hate crimes already exist as a category in the United States it seems the skepticism over whether the government is competent at identifying hateful ideolgies could apply to that as well. |
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07-28-2020, 06:59 PM | #21579 (permalink) | |
ask me about cosmology
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