The Wow I Can't Believe That News Story Thread

[Isbjørn]

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

I’m sure you’re right. My fear is if Norway doesn’t protect its cultural identity by maintaining some degree of homogeneity the world is going to lose something precious. All of Scandinavia is special because you’ve modeled a way of life that’s relatively sustainable. You don’t have to absorb the rest of the world. If they want to live in a country like Norway they need to create one where they’re at. You guys have educated yourselves and adopted peaceful ways. And that’s with Russia eager to get up your ass. You’ve worked hard to make Norway what it is. I hate to see you lose it. Without being hateful I encourage you to protect what you’ve accomplished.

The welfare state is not just for white people, man. Scandinavian countries have a high standard of living because of favorable circumstances in the global economy (Norway found oil when the oil price was high) and an organized labor movement. The real threat to Norwegian society is not immigration, but Tories, and the European Union softening up labor laws.

And I mostly don't give a **** about preserving cultural homogeneity in Norway. The only reason one can talk about ethnic homogeneity in Norway (and Sweden!) is because Norwegians and Swedes colonized Sápmi and brutally assimilated native people. Besides, Norwegians have always been in contact with different cultures, including in Europe and the Middle East. The notion of a "pure Nordic identity" doesn't go further back than the 1800s.

But all this talk of preserving cultures and ethnicities is a digression from what really matters. The capitalist rulers want us to fight along ethnic and cultural lines. We need to leave aside those differences, toss away cultural chauvinism and unite on the basis of class struggle. In the long run, Norwegian workers, Polish workers and Somali workers have the same interests - an end to capitalism and imperialism. I know plenty of immigrants who are committed to preserving the welfare state, and Norwegians who are actively tearing it down and making society worse for all of us.

Originally Posted by elphenor

he's already in college that's the actual difference

Lmao

[Isbjørn]

Originally Posted by elphenor

it's a curiously suggestive thought that the reason Norway does so well is their homogenous culture

he's not talking about white people migrating there when he says "rest of the world" I don't think

It's funny how some people will take a socialist position one minute and then propagate a racist talking point the next minute.

When it comes to Norwegian work life: it is true that increased work immigration the last fifteen-twenty years has challenged wages and working conditions in some trades, due to the increased competition from cheap labor. This has especially been the case in building and construction, where companies more often hire immigrants (increasingly through casualized contracts) and give them lower wages than their organized, Norwegian counterparts. A lot of the time this is done illegally. Tories both in the Labor and Conservative party have ignored it. They're in love with the European Union, and don't care about what happens on the workplaces, or about the working conditions of immigrants. A new term, "social dumping", has been coined to describe the ruthless exploitation of immigrant labor in Norwegian workplaces. Bourgeois politicians either shove it under the carpet, talk nice about it and do nothing, or blame it on the immigrants themselves.

- First off: none of this is the fault of immigrants themselves. It is the fault of the companies that exploit cheap immigrant labor for profit, and the politicians that side with the capitalists.
- The vast majority of work immigrants that come to Norway are white and European. Most of them come from Sweden and Poland.

Tories and populists spread the often-time racist myth about brown people coming here to take "Norwegian" jobs and ruin working conditions. It is simply not true, and perpetuating such myths will never do anything to improve the lives of working people, no matter how much one talks about "preserving Norwegian society" or whatever.

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by elphenor

questionable when the candidate that received the most votes lost

Considering that no democratic constitution is written in a politic vacuum, and the electoral college was created to convince small states to ratify ours, I'd say it was a pretty clear result of the democratic process in a way. Throw in the American people's ignoring of gerrymandering and voting away our sovereignty couldn't be more democratic.

and our representative make up doesn't reflect the majority will

If enough people are willing to vote for Donald Trump that he can get elected, then electoral college or no electoral college there is something very wrong with the human race.

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by elphenor

A bunch of land owning elites drafting up a form of representation that most benefits them is a "clear result" of Democracy?

Again, no constitution is written in a political vacuum. Would you consider the amount of women currently in congress to be a democratic representation of our population? ****'s never what we want, but all of these people are still voted for democratically.

a pretty small percentage of people actually went out and cast a vote for Trump when you factor in the popular vote loss and those that abstained

Our country has a long and storied history of half the populace staying home on election day. It might even lead one to think that people really don't want any of this democracy business and would rather give up all the responsibility and effort required in remaining informed and deciding the future of an entire country. But they grew up in a country that tells them that democracy and the will of the people is what they want so they think they want it cause why would it occur to them that what they really want is to be led. Who the **** cares who the people voted for tbh?

[Chula Vista]

Wow, without Kelsey it just ain't the same.

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by elphenor

if the popular vote loses, if the majority will is ignored

you can't go and tout that as a failure of democracy

it's like suffering brain damage in a scooter accident and blaming the helmet you didn't wear

The electoral college is not something people are ignorant of. Dubya getting elected through electoral win but popular loss put it very much at the forefront of political discussion, and yet it still exists. If the people cared enough to make it an issue then I imagine there would have at least been an attempt to do something about it, but we're content to leave things as they are cause **** it we can still buy bread and TVs, so yeah I'd say that's democratic. The people have spoken on the electoral college, and our response is, "Meh".

[Lisnaholic]

Originally Posted by elphenor

if the popular vote loses, if the majority will is ignored

you can't go and tout that as a failure of democracy

it's like suffering brain damage in a scooter accident and blaming the helmet you didn't wear

^ LOL This is a wonderful analogy. Unfortunately, I can't figure out how to apply it to what you're talking about.

[The Batlord]

Who cares if the majority would vote for something if given the option on a silver platter they never had to work for? That's not how democracy works. In order to overcome all of the political obstacles to any reform the people have to actually try: become informed and engaged, vote intelligently, write their representatives, etc. Which you know full well is never going to happen if 50-60% of the population don't even bother to vote in the first place.

[The Batlord]

Then please enlighten us. I highly doubt any other reason would matter if the population as a whole actually started caring. And it's not simply apathy. Humans in general are only truly concerned with their own small bubble world, with everything beyond that simply being an (often times confusing) abstract concept that is much harder to become emotionally invested in. Chuck in a nation of millions where one vote's power becomes diluted to the point of statistical insignificance and you get a people who can't feel arsed to go to a voting booth.

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by elphenor

democratic participation varies widely by country meaning it can not simply be that humans are naturally apathetic or if they are the degree to which is heavily dependent upon other factors

School shootings are a mental health crisis.