Well that's what I always thought, but maybe there's something else to it...*unsure*

I find your attitude towards Mexicans funny considering your signature.

Fair enough.
I just think the whole attitude to immigrants seems a little hypocritical.

Your thread on the little Mexican boy has spawned a monster topic.

because its alot hypocritical.
America has a good way of enscrewing the whole "Do as i say and not as I do" thing

no sir,..i'm not saying that at all,...

in fact, when i was in high school i sold peaches at a road side stand during the summer,......there is a large orchard in the town i grew up, and most high school kids did the same,....
because of this i was around many of the illegal immigrant workers,.....they would come here for the season and make enough money to live in mexico for the rest of the year,......the same workers would come back year after year, and after awhile i built up friendships with many of them,....they were all great, hardworking, family guys who were just tryin to make some money to feed their wives and kids,.....and while i find that honorable,....and like many of them,....it is still wrong

as for paying for them,.....the majority of revenue that is spent on them is health care,.....also, most of them will buy illegal social security numbers,....they often obtain welfare this way,....
so we are paying for them,....

IDK, wasn't thinking clearly. This same debate happened on the last community i was on, did not end well. Facist moderators ended up banning people who think differently than them.

as i find your attitude funny seeing as how your not even old enough to vote,...fight for your country,.....nor have you been in the work force long enough to see your hard earned tax dollars ill spent

OK OK, I was really talking about the Mexican war, you know the James K. Polk thing where we got california and everything and the border was pushed to rio grande. I hate Manifest Destiny. I think the Texas Revolution is a different monster while I believe that people moving there as soon as Mexico won it's independence is wrong I also believe in Popular Sovereignty.

I was toning my stance down. It seems savannah has enough on her plate without me adding to it.

I'm sorry as an American citizen I thought I had freedom of speech or at least the freedom to recite history which everyone seems to be conveniently ignoring. Jack Kerouac would be disgusted with your attitude.

You won't get banned for having an opinion, just don't whinge when someone blasts you for it.

I find this to be an internal problem with how we operate rather than an immigrant problem. I mean legal citizens can buy a duplicate ss to obtain benifits.

why? poncho (who's real name is tyler) maybe half mexican,...but he parents are legal as is he,....he was born here, makeing him an american just as much as anyone,.....

besides i wouldnt let my feelings twards immigration askew befriending a little boy,.....

i'm not racist,....i just have a problem with the influx of illegal immigration,....

there's also the issue of national security that no one has brought up,....
its not just that i dont want everyone hopein the borders and draining the welfare system,....alot of are immigration laws are set up to keep the deviants out

So it's better to spend your hard earned tax dollars on war and killing than on Mexicans?

you do have that right,...and i applaud you for useing it as so many young people just dont care,...
but i also have the right to tell you what i think about it

it IS an internal problem but one that relates directly to the issue we are discussing

the war is a totally different issue,....and one that i will not get off into here

however, i will say, our tax dollars are spent on much more than use funding the millitary,....and war,...

we have hungry needy AMERICANS that could use that help as well,....
and while i will admit, supporting illegal aliens is not the only way our tax dollars are illspent,...it is the one that directly relates to the issue we are discussing

And we're doing a totally good job of housing and supporting them.

i got too caught up and didnt get to respond to this statement the way i'd like,....

i enjoy kerouac's words, just as i enjoy the music of the hippie movement,....i can identify with and read/listen/watch many things that i necessarily agree with whole heartedly,.....
so this statement really bares not on me,.....as i'm sure there's many thing that kerouac might have done that would disgust me as well,.....

my political and eithical views can be quite different from the things i expose myself too

Why do Americans have more right to land that we have no ancestorial connection with while Mexicans clearly do?

read the whole statement,....i'm not saying that we are perfect,...

crowey baby,...why do you hate america so much?
you could move you know,....imagrate somewhere else,....just do it legally

if that is your arguement then none of us should be here,.....

I'm not sure what you know of that process, but it's not very easy to get into America legally...;)

It's not an arguement. It's a clear question that I don't understand. I think Manifest Destiny and Imperialism are wrong. Why do we have a birthright to land that they don't? It's really not just America that has these problems..



Hi Alex!

so,..just because its hard makes it ok to just hop on over here?

lol i guess because we won,...

I'm speaking from a viewpoint of someone who is rather well off and doesn't need to emigrate, but I think before judging them too harshly, you should consider that they do that out of sheer desperation...that's all really.

I should also note that I do sort of agree with you, you can't have an open door policy, those days are long gone, but clearly they aren't taking your jobs and the money spent on them can't be as significant as you make it out to be.

Night all, have fun.;)

i too, have no need to emigrate, and while i understand the humanitarian view point,...i would also like to point out i'm not judgeing them as people, i'm judgeing what they do to the economy
i understand that what they are doin is often out of desperation,...however why not reform their own country?

anyway,...i'm gonna bow out of this for the time being,......supper's here,....

yea that's never really done it for me. I kind of have a lot of philosophical issues with the concept of ownership but that really is a different topic.

I've been reading Kropotkin. =/ As if i wasn't a already a big bag of red and yellow.

How can the poor and uneducated reform their own countries?

how else do countries get overthrown?

You mean governments? Well, people have been overthrowing governments in Latin America for decades now, but I don't see their situation improving...meaning, it takes a lot to better the economic situation of a certain country. Most people can't wait that long to improve their lives...

Oh and by the way...:
You really can't spare those 11 dollars?

Who is this Roger you speak of??

This is my take on immigration: The government does not have the right to prevent anyone from going anywhere. period. Especially not when all they are trying to do is make enough money to feed their families. All us Americans are so facking decadent and lazy it would be good for us to have a slight drain in our economy anyway.

first that study is almost a decade old,..
and second thats documented cases

Ok, do you have any recent relevant data?

i regret that i dont have numbers right here in front of me,.....
let me see what i can find you

Slightly off topic but still relevant. The three things all first world countries have are technological wealth, a strong medical field, and good crop resources. These three things create the most job opportunities and long term markets. So I theorize that if we want to actually help Mexicans in the long run, we'd be better off helping them in the technological and scientific fields, including medical. Simply by introducing genetically engineered crops it'd probably create a market boom and create new job opportunities. Now imagine what other sciences could bring and you'd have them doing well. For a country to succeed it needs to be up to date on the evergrowing markets, and those markets are rooted in science. Also, another financially stable country would help commerce and better global economy so it helps more than just the mexicans in a way.

So if honestly helping other people is what we want to do than I'd suggest offering them some of what keeps the top nations on top. If we want to fix immigration laws, I'd say be more lax about it. If we are to be the land of the free, as we often suggest, I'd say being more open to immigration would be a positive thing.

Also, I'd be up for spending 11 dollars to help a stranger.

Yeah I wasn't sure what the implication was here either.

But since I'm the devils advocate. Doesn't it make sense that the country with the money and the health care system and the workers benefits gets the land?

Or did you want them to just have more land they didn't want to be in. Or maybe you just wanted Oklahoma to be a border state?

Is your problem with our immigration policy or is it with our manifest destiny?

I think she said earlier that her problem is with manifest destiny but I'll let her go into more detail about it

also The Unfan....that's a good idea in theory but there would also have to be an education system in place to support those technical professions