The Official Iraq War thread (country, house, rock, albums)

[boo boo]

Originally Posted by Crowquill

They'll hate us no matter what, so why stay there and be directly there in front of them and have our soldiers personally subject to their hate? They'll hate us no matter what, why not leave? Because our leaders don't care to.

I really hate repeating myself. THEY WILL HATE US MORE IF WE LEAVE. We invaded their country, blew it up and killed a lot of people, now we're trying to help clean up some of our own mess. If we leave, they will certainly hold a grudge against us for leaving it to them. They say they wont to be left alone, but we know enough how illogical and hypocritical they are. If we leave they will turn it around and call us cowards and deserters.

After 9/11 there was not a country in Europe that didn't want to reach out and help us. To go from having the whole world at your side, to having them view you as their biggest threat to peace, in under 5 years, takes some terrible desicion making.

I never said we didn't make terrible decisions, but the bad decisions was the way we went to war, how we executed it, how we timed it. The idea of simply going to war with Iraq wasn't the bad decision, that was a good one.

However, when the French left Algeria in the 60's, they didn't loose any prestige. Why would we?

PLEASE. STOP with the historical comparisons. Not every country is exactly the same.

Other than the fact that we don't have much to start with, why? Other countries learned after WWII to release imperial possessions. The United States is still stuck in the late 19th, early 20th century mindset.

I doubt it, weither you want to believe it, things HAVE changed since 9/11.

Bill Maher says otherwise, but Bill Maher is an idiot.

Once again, your logic is absolutely horrendous. Were you born with this horrible logic or did you develop it naturally. No one is comparing Iraq to Nicaragua.

Then why bring it up, how is it relevent?

Nicaragua was another country with a stable democracy that was not US funded and backed. The US can't have that. We have a monopoly on democracy, and you have to come to us if you want one.

And its simple, there was a time when we did let other countrys that had been revolutionized govern themselves, and this lead to communism. Bad mistake. The UN was developed to deal with these kinds of problems, but they don't.

No one said anything about Iraq being like Nicaragua, you just can't distinguish when someone is comparing one country to another, and when someone is using another country as an example to counter the reasoning you are supporting, and the reasoning we were given to go into Iraq. We don't support democracies, saying we were going there to bring them democracy is bull.

You're wrong. We know better than to repeat what happened with Israel circa 1948. This wont be a fecade, if it was it would make things worse with other middle eastern countries, and the last thing we need is to have to deal with more of them.

What does it have to do with Iraq? My god man, can't you read the post. WE DON'T SUPPORT DEMOCRACIES WE CRUSH THEM.

Your talking points suck. Your rebutting style usually consists of taking a post like mine, and changing one word like its clever or something. Now you're even worse, repeating the same incredibly stupid phrase over and over.

We didn't go to Iraq to establish democracy. You think its good that we went there and took Saddam out of power and put in place a democracy. That is bullshit. We hate democracies.

THEN WHY DO WE HAVE ONE? Huh?

Our government knows that these terrorists are in our borders. They talk with them, they protect them from the FBI.

Good fiction, good fiction.

And the only reason our policies have changed since 9/11 is to launch a massively successful propaganda campaign to scare the hell out of people so we will support anything the government does as long as it is eradicating terror.

I smell a bad movie plot.

Enjoy your kool-aid.

The recent 'terror threat' in London is a great example. It is ridiculous how much this was overblown. Ex-CIA intelligence experts say that the 'bombs' in those Mercedes would have done HORRIBLE damage...to the interior of the Mercedes. But of course the media and government display it as some kind of reaffirmation of the horrible threat posed to us by terror. It is working too, you've fallen victim to it, quite easily it seems too. You even justify wars with it, just like warmongers in Washington want you to.

I don't trust the goverment, never did. Furthermore what does the way British media handleed the recent terror threat in London have to do with us?

No, we shouldn't ever invade countries and occupy them for years and expend their natural resources.
To justify that you have to be a gung-ho patriot.

I'm very anti-patriotism. This isn't about patriotism, its security and common sense.

[sleepy jack]

Originally Posted by boo boo

Rock N Roll begat R&B which begat Soul which begat Funk which begat Hip Hop. It's in The Bible.

02-bright_eyes-when_the_president_talks_to_god-myb.mp3
Folk song, proved you wrong.

Originally Posted by boo boo

If so then this brings in a new question. Who
gives a sh*t?

Who gives a shit? Thousands of parents have had their children taken
from them and killed for a lie. They were killed to better the lives
of corrupt politicians, you should care. Apathy is America's problem.

Regardless of our reasons, Iraq would have been a threat down
the road (its good to look ahead) and Democracy should be spread to
the middle east, it dosen't have to be by force, but we should show
them how it works, and that it can work, right now we're giving
them the benefit of the doubt.

We aren't spreading democracy to the Middle East, you're ignorant to
history so the fact that you disagree with with my assertion that the
US doesn't support democracies doesn't really matter to me. Had you
maybe, read a book, something, you would agree as well. You don't
though, so you've got to let a 16 year old kid on a music forum school
you on history. It's pretty sad.

You need to learn how to look ahead.

Iraq is the Iraqi's problem, not ours. They posed no threat to us.

Do you understand the meaning of 'imperialism'? The British didn't
plan on pulling out of India. The Belge didn't plan on pulling out of
the Congo. We don't plan on pulling out of the area we stole from
Mexico in the 1850's, imperialism doesn't work like that.

What state do you live in? I'm sure we got it by invading it.

Sadly, its capitalism at work, thats just the way it is. They would be
better under our rule than Saddams. Only they won't be under our rule,
because we have no plains of taking over Iraq.

Yes, capitalism has always been the root of imperialism. Lands were
invaded and used to supply natural resources for the invading
countries industrial machine. That is how it worked back then, and it
is how the US works now. We are ruling the Iraqis with an Arab facade.
The fact that you think 'arab facade' is fiction again shows your
ignorance to history. Read.

I don't pay taxes and I collect disability, so just change that
to "you have to pay for it". Isn't democracy great?

Good for you, I'm not sure that democracy has a thing to do with you
collecting disability, that is more a socialist aspect of our country
than democratic.

Yeah, because in the centuries since this nation was founded,
our polices never changed.

What about it changed? In the 1850's we did it with Mexico.
In the 1950's we did it with Iran.
In the 1980's we did it in Nicaragua and El Salvador, and that was
Reaganite politics, which George Bush practises.
Our policy didn't change. If it did, explain how.

No we don't. That was one example of something we did. At this point
your hate for America has gone way beyond the laws of logic and common
sense. If we hate democracy so much, why do we govern ourselves with a
democracy? Wouldn't free trade be easier if all the nations were
democracies, wouldn't it be easier for us? Wouldn't it be easier for
US citezins and hell, wouldn't it be easier for those in power? What
f*cking reason do we have to "crush them"? Stop copying and pasting
stuff from MoveOn.Org.

One example? Iran, Nicaragua, El Salvador, we refused to support Fidel
Castro overthrow his dictator in Cuba because his dictator allowed US
companies to control Havana and make tons of money. Thats 4 examples,
and those are off the top of my head. I'd find more if I took the time
to search it. We hate democracies that aren't US supported, and when
you have the US controlling your democracy, it isn't really a
democracy. We overthrew Mossadeq because Iran set an example,
Nicaragua set an example, it is possible to have a functional
democracy without the US pulling the strings. That is why we overthrow
them. We are not in the democracy business. We are in the business of
installing pro-American leaders who will allow us to exploit their
countries. Why do you think we hate Hugo Chavez so much? He won't let
the US exploit Venezuelan oil. We can't have that, which is why we try
and assassinate him.

And we helped Osama.

Its not like I've forgotten the bad things we have done. I'm telling
you dammit, this is different, this is not Mexico circa 1850, this is
not Iran circa 1950s, this is NOT Cambodia, its NOT Nicaragua. Its a
very different situation and you fail to realise that.

You fail to realize that history is important, mostly because you're
enormously uneducated in history so you cannot see that the things
which happen in Nicaragua in the '80s, what happened in Iran in the
'50s, is happening today. The circumstances are exactly the same. The
wording is essentially the same. Switch 'communism' to 'terrorism' and
change 'White-Man's burden' to 'spreading democracy'. Its the same
thing boo boo. But good job at not realizing how much of a role
history plays, you play right into the governments hands. If the
people in the 80's hadn't forgotten the Iran-Contra Affair, Reagan
would have had a lower approval rating than GW now. If you actually
knew your countries history you'd be skeptical, but the comments you
make later in this post, which I will reply to, just prove how
ignorant you are to your own country's history.

YouTube
- CNN Sept. 11 live on air video 9/11
YouTube - CNN 9-11
Attacks Coverage

I highly doubt we will make a mistake like that again.

You highly doubt it? The only reason it was a mistake was because the
public found out about it. The politicians were making out like
bandits, why wouldn't they do it again? I mean, they already have.

You should be a fiction writer, because thats all this is.

Fiction? Are you really THAT ignorant to history? Lord Curzon, the
British foreign secretary said after WWI. "We must create an 'Arab
facade' ruled and administrated under British guidance and controlled
by a native Mohammedan, and as far as possible an Arab staff." This
should all, he continued, "be veiled by constitutional fictions."

This is exactly what we are doing today. The Iraqi council consists of
25 men, all appointed by the Director of Reconstruction and
Humanitarian Assistance Paul Bremer. So the government is ruled by 25
men, all appointed by an American representing American interests. Arab
facade? Of course it is. If you're too naive to see that, fine, but
don't say what I've written is 'fiction'. Aran facade is the exact
word used by Lord Curzon after WWI. Learn some history boo boo.

We don't harbor terrorists, not with any knowledge of the
terrorists, where and who they are and what they intend to do. But I
guess what you mean by harboring terrorists is that they simply live
here, why is that? Because we welome so many immigrants? Nah, can't
be.

We don't harbor terrorists? Again, your ignorance to history digs you
into a hole here.

Orlando Bosch- Former CIA-backed terrorist who is responsible for the
bombing of a civilian Cuban airliner which killed all 73 people on
board, including 5 North Korean Olympic fencers, also responsible for
the bombing of a Polish civilian airliner, for which he was arrested
in 1968 in Venezuela. While on parole, he fled to the United States
with the help of the US Ambassador to Venezuela, when he arrived in
Florida he was arrested by the INS for violating parole, however, when
he threatened to reveal information about his work with the CIA,
George H. W. Bush pardoned him. He now lives in Miami, Florida. He has
been described by the FBI as an 'anti-Castro terrorist umbrella
organization' and the former Attorney General Dick Thornburg called
him an 'unrepentant terrorist'. The government protects him though,
which I suppose obliterates your point outright. But there's more.

Emmanuel Constant- Founder of FRAHP, a Hatian death squad responsible
for the deaths of over 4000 Hatians who supported ousted president
Jean-Baptiste Aristade. When Aristade was restored to power he fled to
the US, where he was arrested. However, once again he threatened to
divulge information about his workings with the CIA in the 90's, Bill
Clinton ordered him to be freed. Now he lives in Queens, New York.
That is twice that your point has been proven incorrect because of
your ignorance to history.

[sleepy jack]

Actually me calling bush a failure was completely my own opinion, where you got that musicians thing from I don't know. I was just stating that fact bashing our own President is the status quo says alot about how good of a job he's doing.

[boo boo]

Originally Posted by Crowquill

I was just stating that fact bashing our own President is the status quo says alot about how good of a job he's doing.

Toby Keith has gone platinum 21 times.

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by boo boo

Toby Keith has gone platinum 21 times.

Justice will be served
And the battle will rage
This big dog will fight
When you rattle his cage
And you’ll be sorry that you messed with
The U.S. of A.
`Cause we`ll put a boot in your ass
It`s the American way


<3 toby keith

[CAPTAIN CAVEMAN]

Originally Posted by matious

Justice will be served
And the battle will rage
This big dog will fight
When you rattle his cage
And you’ll be sorry that you messed with
The U.S. of A.
`Cause we`ll put a boot in your ass
It`s the American way


<3 toby keith

ARE YOU FOR SERIOUS?

Those are actually lyrics he's used?

[sleepy jack]

And how much did his album with the pro-bush songs sell compared to American Idiot?

[boo boo]

Thats different, American Idiot is popular because it was made by a very popular band, who were popular long before they got political. Keith however has always been no butts about his conservative views. That and there are several other popular artists with conservative views, Charlie Daniels, ZZ Top, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Fear, Ted Nugent, Skrewdriver, etc. Just because there may be a few more on the left than right is insiginificant. Being in the majority dosen't make you right, if it does, that would mean Christians are more right than most people.

Besides, just because a lot of people likes a certain political artist dosen't mean that all of that artists fans share his politics.

Just look at ClashWho..... He loves The Clash.

[sleepy jack]

I don't keep up with country radio, but Toby Keith has been popular for awhile too if I remember right, and that disgusting Red White and Blue song was everywhere, country fans are conservative for the most part (look what happened with the dixie chicks) so naturally they'd all enjoy it and request it alot. But look at all the artists who came out with anti-bush songs, Eminem, Green Day, Foo Fighters, the Ataris, Sleater-Kinney, Yellowcard, and how many Rock Against Bush compilations have there been now, two or three? I don't understand how you can say being anti-bush doesn't sell.

[boo boo]

Originally Posted by Crowquill

I don't keep up with country radio, but Toby Keith has been popular for awhile too if I remember right, and that disgusting Red White and Blue song was everywhere, country fans are conservative for the most part (look what happened with the dixie chicks) so naturally they'd all enjoy it and request it alot. But look at all the artists who came out with anti-bush songs, Eminem, Green Day, Foo Fighters, the Ataris, Sleater-Kinney, Yellowcard, and how many Rock Against Bush compilations have there been now, two or three? I don't understand how you can say being anti-bush doesn't sell.

All rock bands, do you not see a pattern here?