Rishi Sunak says 'a man is a man and a woman is a woman'

**Marie Monday** · 12-14-2023, 04:10 PM

just like the existence of good and reasonable trans people doesn't justify overlooking people like the kind of creep you describe, the existence of those creeps also doesn't justify the opposite

Synthgirl · 12-14-2023, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadis

I still think there are trans people who are great, who are real individuals with their own stories and who don't just recite the ideological script.

Ok dude. Good to know at least some of us meet your standards of “real individuality”. You do realize how dehumanizing that sounds, right?

Whatever, man. When Trump gets re-elected and hormones are banned for all ages, all online trans resources are censored and all trans people are forcibly detransitioned, I hope you and your TERF homies feel just so good about yourselves for relentlessly spreading and platforming this hatred of us.

SGR · 12-14-2023, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindfulness

Im hoping Gavin Newsom saves us, or they put Biden on Adderall lol

Gavin Newsom wouldn't get it done. You'd need Michelle Obama.

WWWP · 12-14-2023, 08:22 PM

God no, as a Californian, not Newsom.

jadis · 12-15-2023, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

just like the existence of good and reasonable trans people doesn't justify overlooking people like the kind of creep you describe, the existence of those creeps also doesn't justify the opposite

The political demands of trans activism reflect the creep agenda and are unacceptable. We've been down that road already once or twice.

Once you stretch the concept of "woman" to where everyone can just opt into it there's no legal basis to contest the outcomes (such as what we see in the Canadian prison system and, more broadly, the introduction of the male gaze and penis into spaces created to exclude those). There's a price to everything, and the price of good intentions is usually steeper than members of the community of the good are prepared to admit.

Synthgirl · 12-15-2023, 08:58 AM

.

**Marie Monday** · 12-15-2023, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadis

The political demands of trans activism reflect the creep agenda and are unacceptable. We've been down that road already once or twice.

Once you stretch the concept of "woman" to where everyone can just opt into it there's no legal basis to contest the outcomes (such as what we see in the Canadian prison system and, more broadly, the introduction of the male gaze and penis into spaces created to exclude those). There's a price to everything, and the price of good intentions is usually steeper than members of the community of the good are prepared to admit.

There are different degrees of trans activism and you homogenise them too much, but at this point we're not gonna come to a closer agreement anyway (as you say, we keep repeating ourselves) so nevermind

jadis · 12-16-2023, 03:37 AM

The goals of the trans activism I'm talking about are changes to law. Law is by necessity a broad-brush affair. I don't have to think that all or most or even many MTFs are predators (though among those who demand transfer to women's prisons in Canada it doesn't look good) to think that none of them belong in spaces where women have an expectation of freedom from the male gaze and penis.

It might get interesting if you name some of those kinds of trans activism you're prepared to condemn as dangerous or excessive. It sounds like you're comfortable with saying this about the consequences but not about the well-funded and sophisticated political campaigns of policy capture that lead to those consequences.

It's easy to agree that this is not ideal:

But pointing out what has made this possible is much more challenging because it requires offending many perfectly nice people. Believe me, I get it. I haven't survived in academia for as long as I have (though whether being an adjunct amounts to survival I'm not at all sure) because I'm as outspoken elsewhere as I am on a zero stakes anonymous forum.

**Marie Monday** · 12-16-2023, 04:43 AM

Aw man I really don't feel like debating but I'll say that I really think if an activist group pushes for a measure I condemn, then I will oppose that. And I'm sure many trans activist groups in general push for things here and there that i do oppose, there are probably some more radical groups that i oppose altogether.

Also, I think you have a view of me as much more conditioned to be nice and inoffensive than I actually am

jadis · 12-16-2023, 05:17 AM

Your denial of being bought by the Niceness lobby is noted but not accepted. I still think you're in the pocket of Big Nice.

12-15-2023, 08:58 AM	#116 (permalink)
Synthgirl Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2023 Location: Cheeseland USA Posts: 162	. Last edited by Synthgirl; 12-15-2023 at 11:51 AM.

12-16-2023, 03:37 AM	#118 (permalink)
jadis Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: dont ask Posts: 1,440	The goals of the trans activism I'm talking about are changes to law. Law is by necessity a broad-brush affair. I don't have to think that all or most or even many MTFs are predators (though among those who demand transfer to women's prisons in Canada it doesn't look good) to think that none of them belong in spaces where women have an expectation of freedom from the male gaze and penis. It might get interesting if you name some of those kinds of trans activism you're prepared to condemn as dangerous or excessive. It sounds like you're comfortable with saying this about the consequences but not about the well-funded and sophisticated political campaigns of policy capture that lead to those consequences. It's easy to agree that this is not ideal: But pointing out what has made this possible is much more challenging because it requires offending many perfectly nice people. Believe me, I get it. I haven't survived in academia for as long as I have (though whether being an adjunct amounts to survival I'm not at all sure) because I'm as outspoken elsewhere as I am on a zero stakes anonymous forum. Last edited by jadis; 12-16-2023 at 04:25 AM.

12-16-2023, 05:17 AM	#120 (permalink)
jadis Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: dont ask Posts: 1,440	Your denial of being bought by the Niceness lobby is noted but not accepted. I still think you're in the pocket of Big Nice.