Rishi Sunak says 'a man is a man and a woman is a woman'

jadis · 11-09-2023, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synthgirl

Like Marie said, for practical situations where the biological sex is relevant, then yeah of course I'll have to go with the "male" category.

And who gets to decide which situations are these? You, I presume.

The only non-arbitrary line anyone can draw in any of this is natal sex.

jadis · 11-09-2023, 08:52 AM

Quote:

And as for "legal consequences for forgetting to say the correct pronouns", like, if you actually forgot, most trans people in my experience are cool with a quick "oh, oops, sorry", and such. And like, cis people can get misgendered too. If I started just referring to an established cis man as "she" that would also be dickish. And if I refused to use that cis man's correct pronouns and repeatedly misgendered him despite him making it clear that he does not want it and it makes him uncomfortable, then I think that would fall under harassment. So why is it a great and bold statement to harass trans people and a dick move to harass cis people? Why does the way people feel comfortable presenting and referring to themselves need to be rigidly bound to the genitalia they were born with?

Very interesting.

I am relieved that "most" trans people would forgive me my transgression if my intention was pure and there was no malice in my heart.

Putting aside one's concern about the alleged minority who wouldn't...

No one should be forced to play a game where someone weighs your guilt or innocence based on your willingness to play along with a fiction, on the pain of social and professional sanction.

If you started referring to "an established cis man" as by female pronouns that would be what it is: a painfully transparent attempt at evening up the score, when it is patently not even. You can refer to a guy as a "she" all you want, it's just a sad attempt at making a point through comedy. Referring to you as "he" has a different meaning and import.

Synthgirl · 11-09-2023, 08:56 AM

And you referring to being trans as a “fiction” is why we cannot have a debate.

Have a nice day.

jadis · 11-09-2023, 09:13 AM

Trans people are very real.

I only refer to the idea that MTFs are women as "fiction"

Moreover, participating in society involves upholding a great many fictions. We all do it. It's a matter of analyzing the risks, costs etc. If there's no element of coercion, and the other political issues are off the table, I'll gladly affirm, erm, what did I call it on SCD? The self-image of every Andre the Giant lookalike as a teenage thot? Sure.

But if my upholding a fiction furthers the entrenchment of a reality where gender nonconforming kids are getting their bits hacked off and rapists are incarcerated with women? Then I don't think I'll bother.

jadis · 11-09-2023, 11:22 AM

Quote:

And like, cis people can get misgendered too. If I started just referring to an established cis man as "she" that would also be dickish. And if I refused to use that cis man's correct pronouns and repeatedly misgendered him despite him making it clear that he does not want it and it makes him uncomfortable, then I think that would fall under harassment. So why is it a great and bold statement to harass trans people and a dick move to harass cis people?

In my best "am I being detained?" voice: "am I being misgendered?"

**Marie Monday** · 11-09-2023, 02:00 PM

No, I don't think that's an inevitable slippery slope and 'I support all the good things' is not a fair representation of my standpoint, but that's enough talking in circles for today I guess

The Batlord · 11-09-2023, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadis

Trans people are very real.

I only refer to the idea that MTFs are women as "fiction"

Literally all of the hot air paragraphs of pseudo-intellectual bull**** this ****ing loser posts to argue terf nonsense is undone by these two sentences. If you have a dick he thinks you're a man and any of the bloated nonsense he posts to argue that his views are more complex than that is just your dip**** uncle dissembling at Thanksgiving cause he doesn't want people to think he's an *******.

**** you, jadis, I think you're a worthless piece of **** and I hope Quebec loses French as a language.

Synthgirl · 11-10-2023, 12:06 AM

Yup. I think it's worse than that though, the dude also very clearly and openly said he would support an all-ages ban on hormone therapy to "protect the children".

Makes me feel dumber for having argued so much with someone whose view of trans people is functionally indistinguishable from the right wing conservative nutjobs who are actually pushing for that legislation.

jadis · 11-10-2023, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Literally all of the hot air paragraphs of pseudo-intellectual bull**** this ****ing loser posts to argue terf nonsense is undone by these two sentences. If you have a dick he thinks you're a man and any of the bloated nonsense he posts to argue that his views are more complex than that is just your dip**** uncle dissembling at Thanksgiving cause he doesn't want people to think he's an *******.

**** you, jadis, I think you're a worthless piece of **** and I hope Quebec loses French as a language.

OK coomer

The Batlord · 11-10-2023, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadis

OK coomer

Ok if this site is so dead that he can insinuate I'm a pedophile then I should be able to tell him to kill himself.

11-09-2023, 08:56 AM	#43 (permalink)
Synthgirl Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2023 Location: Cheeseland USA Posts: 155	And you referring to being trans as a “fiction” is why we cannot have a debate. Have a nice day.

11-09-2023, 09:13 AM	#44 (permalink)
jadis Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: dont ask Posts: 1,359	Trans people are very real. I only refer to the idea that MTFs are women as "fiction" Moreover, participating in society involves upholding a great many fictions. We all do it. It's a matter of analyzing the risks, costs etc. If there's no element of coercion, and the other political issues are off the table, I'll gladly affirm, erm, what did I call it on SCD? The self-image of every Andre the Giant lookalike as a teenage thot? Sure. But if my upholding a fiction furthers the entrenchment of a reality where gender nonconforming kids are getting their bits hacked off and rapists are incarcerated with women? Then I don't think I'll bother.

11-10-2023, 12:06 AM	#48 (permalink)
Synthgirl Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2023 Location: Cheeseland USA Posts: 155	Yup. I think it's worse than that though, the dude also very clearly and openly said he would support an all-ages ban on hormone therapy to "protect the children". Makes me feel dumber for having argued so much with someone whose view of trans people is functionally indistinguishable from the right wing conservative nutjobs who are actually pushing for that legislation.