Fury in the world of Folk

Moshe · 03-18-2011, 03:25 PM

According to Rambling Jack Elliot, who was the original Woody Guthrie immitator, Dylan hung about him all the time during his early days in NYC, observing his mannerisms & singing style closely. Elliots style had similarly been closely copied from Woody & as Woody was laying in hospital, Dylan copied from Elliot(according to Elliot!)

On the subject of Dylan, does anyone recall a rather dodgy charechter called AJ Weberman (sp?) who was a self styled "Dylanologist" & whose main means of research was going through Dylans' garbage?

Lisnaholic · 03-19-2011, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moshe

Dylans' voice is a different matter & it changes over a number of albums. Listen to "Nashville Skyline", "New Morning" & "Self portrait" & his voice is mostly quite clear & pleasant
On other albums it is quite raspy
I don't know if that is what Joni was reffering to when she reffered to his "fake" voice.
What do you think of Dylans more recent material, by which I mean the last couple of decades??
To me Dylans' best album was "Desire"- just such a beautiful sound. Much of Dylan s' later material left me cold

Not really surprising that Dylan`s voice has become more raspy after forty-odd years of singing, so I can`t see why anyone would call that fake.
Yes, absolutely; Desire, Blood On The Tracks and Street Legal are the albums I never tire of. As you say, a beautiful sound, with the violin on Desire, and some of his very best lyrics in those haunting, epic story-songs. So I was disappointed too by some of his later albums. I thought he was returning to form with Oh Mercy and Love And Theft, but the albums of the last two decades never reach the impossibly high standard that he set in his prime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SATCHMO

Yeah, he changed his last name to Dylan as inspired by Dylan Thomas, no big deal. People in the entertainment industry do that all the time. I don't know what inspired Joni to badmouth Bob, but I think she's very wrong on all counts.

I agree about the name changing. In fact I think it`s pretty commendable to name yourself after some strange Welsh poet because you admire his work so much.

And how about Joni`s "Madonna = Nero" remark ? No-one is commenting on that !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moshe

On the subject of Dylan, does anyone recall a rather dodgy charechter called AJ Weberman (sp?) who was a self styled "Dylanologist" & whose main means of research was going through Dylans' garbage?

Yes, I`d forgotten about reading articles by/about AJ Weberman in the music press years ago! Thanks.

Dylan really hated him, I think, - understandable if you imagine someone going through your trashbin and writing about it in the newspapers. That`s very invasive. Didn`t he also do a lot of analysis of Bob`s lyrics ? He counted up how many times Bob used certain words, like "death", and tried to explain what Dylan "really meant" by them.

Finally, not to be too one-sided, how about Joni Mitchell`s best albums ? My candidate is Blue from 1971; a collection of beautiful, honest songs in which Joni strikes a very intimate note. Aha ! Maybe this is why Bob is "fake" by comparison !

starrynight · 03-20-2011, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

And how about Joni`s "Madonna = Nero" remark ? No-one is commenting on that !

Because she hasn't been a darling of the critics maybe.

Lisnaholic · 03-20-2011, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starrynight

She's a right to an opinion as much as anyone. Looking forward to Dylan's response.

Well, he`s had a year to come up with a reply, so he must be truly lost for words, which is a little unusual for Bob.

Quote:

Originally Posted by starrynight

Because she hasn't been a darling of the critics maybe.

^ Sorry, I didn`t quite understand that. Who isn`t a darling of the critics ?

starrynight · 03-21-2011, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisnaholic

^ Sorry, I didn`t quite understand that. Who isn`t a darling of the critics ?

I was replying to somebody saying the remark about Madonna hadn't caused much controversy in comparison.

People have actually been willing to question Dylan's place in music a bit more over the last decade.

03-18-2011, 03:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
Moshe Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: London Posts: 165	According to Rambling Jack Elliot, who was the original Woody Guthrie immitator, Dylan hung about him all the time during his early days in NYC, observing his mannerisms & singing style closely. Elliots style had similarly been closely copied from Woody & as Woody was laying in hospital, Dylan copied from Elliot(according to Elliot!) On the subject of Dylan, does anyone recall a rather dodgy charechter called AJ Weberman (sp?) who was a self styled "Dylanologist" & whose main means of research was going through Dylans' garbage?