Define Folk

Fruitonica · 08-03-2009, 08:17 AM

Well, generally when I refer to folk I'm thinking pared down acoustic guitar, without the twang of country, but there is a certain liltingness to the tone that would separate it in my mind from Jack Johnson. But drawing a line is difficult for me, this is just some shaky border I threw up in my head.

I couldn't call rap folk music, because if you want to use the term to mean a culture's traditional music (which is the tack I'm assuming you're taking) then I would think it needs a longer running heritage than rap's fairly short history and growth. And besides, genre labels are basically a tool to help us classify music and so sort through it easier, it sort of defeats their purpose to label rap as some other name which almost universally brings to mind a completely different form of music.

TheBig3 · 08-03-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fruitonica

I couldn't call rap folk music, because if you want to use the term to mean a culture's traditional music (which is the tack I'm assuming you're taking) then I would think it needs a longer running heritage than rap's fairly short history and growth. And besides, genre labels are basically a tool to help us classify music and so sort through it easier, it sort of defeats their purpose to label rap as some other name which almost universally brings to mind a completely different form of music.

for one thing, the idea of Black People in America is a fairly recent concept. That is to say, the mainstream cultural acceptence isn't that far along. I think I have relatives who were alive when they segregated water fountains in this country.

Not to mention that a culture must be built. One of the more horrifying entities of slavery is the robbery of cultural identity. i didn't intend for this to be a race thing, but theres a scene in Roots where they demand he use his English name and they whip him until he stops saying "Kunta."

Rap also has its roots in the spoken word and slam poetry that came from roughly the 60's. The Black American culture isn't always easily defined, but its strong I'd say. You had tons of people in the 80's wear those shirts that said "its a black thing, you wouldn't understand" well, they seem to believe they've carved out their niche.

As for genre wars, I think the concerpt of folk music predates labels. I'd think it has more relevence than happy hardcore or viking death metal.

Fruitonica · 08-04-2009, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

for one thing, the idea of Black People in America is a fairly recent concept. That is to say, the mainstream cultural acceptence isn't that far along. I think I have relatives who were alive when they segregated water fountains in this country.

Not to mention that a culture must be built. One of the more horrifying entities of slavery is the robbery of cultural identity. i didn't intend for this to be a race thing, but theres a scene in Roots where they demand he use his English name and they whip him until he stops saying "Kunta."

Rap also has its roots in the spoken word and slam poetry that came from roughly the 60's. The Black American culture isn't always easily defined, but its strong I'd say. You had tons of people in the 80's wear those shirts that said "its a black thing, you wouldn't understand" well, they seem to believe they've carved out their niche.

As for genre wars, I think the concerpt of folk music predates labels. I'd think it has more relevence than happy hardcore or viking death metal.

I hope we can all agree that folk is more relevant than viking death metal he , but yes I would consider folk to be a type of meta-genre somewhat akin to pop, which can be outlined in several different ways, not all of them relating to the sonic qualities of the music.

I actually like your point about the relatively short time frame for black Americans to ferment a culture, and hip hop's role in it's growth. So much that I'm tending to agree with you, (perhaps a first in arguments over the internet).
Although, I wonder whether the conditions of the globalised world that rap has developed (and exploded) into, are so different from the development traditional forms of folk music underwent in their relatively insular cultures that it makes the application somewhat pointless.

TheBig3 · 08-04-2009, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fruitonica

Although, I wonder whether the conditions of the globalised world that rap has developed (and exploded) into, are so different from the development traditional forms of folk music underwent in their relatively insular cultures that it makes the application somewhat pointless.

Zeppelin used Middle Eastern chords, Paul Simon robbed more from Africa than Zales.

Its perfectly fine to borrow if a form is established, but I don't know if it diminishes the origin story behind it.

Country music borrows strongly from celtic music, but what was Irish certainly still is. It more a testiment to the art form than the given culture around it.

Oh and hey thanks for the compliment. I do what I can.

08-03-2009, 08:17 AM	#1 (permalink)
Fruitonica Pale and Wan Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Aus Posts: 917	Well, generally when I refer to folk I'm thinking pared down acoustic guitar, without the twang of country, but there is a certain liltingness to the tone that would separate it in my mind from Jack Johnson. But drawing a line is difficult for me, this is just some shaky border I threw up in my head. I couldn't call rap folk music, because if you want to use the term to mean a culture's traditional music (which is the tack I'm assuming you're taking) then I would think it needs a longer running heritage than rap's fairly short history and growth. And besides, genre labels are basically a tool to help us classify music and so sort through it easier, it sort of defeats their purpose to label rap as some other name which almost universally brings to mind a completely different form of music.