i'm glad to see this is still going

i've kinda been out of the alt country loop lately, however trampled by turtles is where its at

I will keep an eye out for Trampled By Turtles, the band name is enough to catch my interest.

I haven't really been keeping up with a lot of the new bands, my buddy has named off a couple to me, but after losing my What.CD account I haven't been able to get new albums. That said though Jay Munly is back with a new album entitled Petr and the Wulf (2010) under the moniker Munly & the Lupercalians that is classic Munly.

Also if anyone is interested I made a Gothic Country mix tape a little while ago: God Damned Country

Is dark cabaret basically a form of dark industry?

Woven Hand - The Threshing Floor - 2010

Hello children,

It's been over a year since I last visited this little hideaway. I am delighted to see you are stubbornly sticking around, despite the stagnant nature of this genre.

I'm about to begin a research paper and am considering writing about this genre, at least the americana/country parts of it, perhaps briefly mentioning the dark cabaret.

My question for you good people to ponder is, what would be an interesting article to read concerning this style? I would like to stay away from a historical rendering. I also would not like to focus too much on one band/artist.

I am considering focusing on a question, like, "Will this genre every see the respect like it's literary counterpart?" or "Could this genre ever catch on and become more accessible?"

Thoughts?

I'd say write an article on how it's more of a response to the god awful pop country that has been plaguing the airwaves for so long now, a complete antithesis to the status quo.

Yeah, I considered that approach as well. As a matter of fact, someone else suggested that to me yesterday.

Interesting thread. I immediately thought of Tarnation. They were on 4AD back in the day with Cocteau Twins, Throwing Muses, Belly and Dead Can Dance.

Has anyone mentioned Timber Timbre yet?
their stuff (especially the self titled third album) is very unnerving and although more folk than country that dark spirit still surges through every beat

I've been mulling this over and am coming up blank. What is the literary counterpart - stuff like Poe, Lovecraft, etc.? If I were writing it I think I would look at the development over time. Why are you excluding that trope?

I'm actually reconsidering that as my topic. I first dismissed it based on a few articles I'd read that attempted to describe this music, name dropping, brief history, etc. So, I thought I'd leave that alone.
Now, however, I realize it wasn't given the proper attention it deserved. One article actually said the lead singer/songwriter for 16HP and WH was Eugene Oliver Davis, or something far off like that. Most articles leave out so much. They usually start with Nick Cave or 16 Horsepower but I believe it goes so much further. Unfortunetly, I'm running out of time, so I hope to not fall into the same trap as others attempting this.

I'd say the closest literary counterpart are those authors plus quite a few more. Faulkner, O'Connor, Crews, McCarthy, too name a few (because those are the books sitting in front of me). Nick Cave has two books, which I haven't read yet. Jay Munly has even written one (two?) but, I can't find a copy anywhere.

[QUOTE=Keigh;957086]Interesting thread. I immediately thought of Tarnation. They were on 4AD back in the day with Cocteau Twins, Throwing Muses, Belly and Dead Can Dance.

I had forgotten about Tarnation. Thanks for digging that up.

I read something once about Johnny Cash being gangsta 'cause of lyrics like "I shot a man in Reno , just to watch him die...." but that notion goes way, way back with old songs like Knoxville Girl. A Truer Sound (blog) posted a murder ballads comp a while back. If it's not available anymore let me know and I'll send it to you. A wonderful, scholarly site, Old Weird America, is an in-depth analysis of Harry Smith's Anthology of American Folk Music. Plenty of historical fodder there. Gee, I'm starting to miss grad school!

Old country blues songs were talking about murder long before hip-hop came around, I agree. If anything, gangsta rap is just a continuation of some of those old blues songs from Blind Willie McTell, Johnson, etc.

A Truer Sound still had the comp. I have most of those songs but some I don't, what a treat!

The Anthology of American Folk Music is great, I dl it a while back but only listened to a bit, but loved it.

Has anyone listened to "The Executioner's Last Song: Vol. 1-3"? It's a John Langford project, filed under John Langford & The Pine Valley Cosmonauts. The first song is a rendition of "Knoxville Girl". Steave Earles version of "Tom Dooley" is a must listen. If I had a better connection with the interweb, I'd upload it and provide a link.

Have the Jon Langfords, but had forgotten - good call.

I really enjoyed a book called The Sound Of The City: The Rise Of Rock And Roll by Charles Gillett. He starts at the beginning of recorded music (if I remember correctly) and makes the connection between the old blues and Jimmy Rogers, whom is considered by many to be the start of country (along with the Carter Family).

Even apparently sweet songs such as "You are my sunshine" contained the following : "But if you leave me To love another You'll regret it all some day"

I'd really like to read your work when you get done!

Oh, and Any Major Dude With Half A Heart just posted part 5 of a series on murder ballads.

Checking it out now.

I'll consider posting a link or something once I'm done, but it all depends on how satisfied I am with the finale and who knows how long that will be.

Well children,
I finally sat down and watched Col. J.D. Wilkes "Seven Signs" last night. It's taken so long to find it, without buying it (because I'm poor). I missed it when it came to PDX, I think I had a gig or something.

Anyone else seen it? I personally like it better than "Searching For The Wrong-Eyed Jesus". It rang truer to me, the characters more life-like. "Searching..." seemed to focus on the darker, grotesque parts of the south and seemed to leave so much out. It was done by BBC through Jim Whites memories of his south. And anyone from the south knows, it's all their own southern perspective that rules them. There isn't ONE southern experience or perspective or definition.

Sorry, haven't seen either film. Where did you find them?

"Searching For The Wrong Eyed Jesus" can be found pretty much anywhere; Netflix, local video store or even the library. It was done by BBC.

"Seven Signs" is harder to locate. It's not in any database listed above so, I had to dl it from a site I stumbled upon.

I am! I am! I started getting into it in '95 when I heard Tarnation's second album, Gentle Creatures, on 4AD. I was a major 4AD fan at the time and bought everything on the label. I'd grown up listening to classic country and countrypolitan on my mom's AM radio stations (Patsy, Johnny, Loretta, etc), and I like some folk music...so getting into Tarnation wasn't a far stretch for me. In 1998, I saw Neko Case open for Nick Cave. The next day, I went out and bought Furnace Room Lullabye, put it in my car stereo...and it didn't leave my stereo for another 6 months. A few years later, Cave toured with Sixteen Horsepower who knocked my socks off when I saw them live. A few months after that, Sixteen Horsepower and Neko Case opened for Calexico in LA and I loved all of it. I need to start catching up with more of the Colorado stuff - Jay Munly, Slim Cessna, etc. I'm always looking for new alt-country/goth-Americana stuff. I'm also curious to know if anyone here has any opinions on the now-defunct Trailer Bride?

Okay children,

My research paper is addressing a statement I read from a blog about the Denver, CO music scene. The title of the article is "The “Denver Sound,” long dead, makes room for lighter, noisier, funner genres in the scene".

I'm doing a quick investigation on whether or not the Denver Sound is truly dead. I'm spending quite a bit of time writing about how it's not just in Denver, though it arguablly started there. I have the majority of the article done, but feel it needs a bit more meat.

So... What say you folks? Do you think it (Denver Sound, Gothic Americana and the like) is dead, dying or thriving? Why do you think so?

I might include you in my article with your name as it appears here if I like what you say.

I hope you all will involve your thoughts and opinions.

-You can send a PM, if you are so inclined, with links to articles and what not you think could be helpful.

Guess I've been snoozing under a rock. I had no idea there was a "Denver Sound". So, apparently, that's where a lot of this music that we like sprung from?

TurtleGirl - Calexico are awesome. Must've been quite a night with that line up.

Oops, Thirties Girl.

I'm curious to know how you think the "Denver sound" differs from other alt-country/Americana artists in general. The Mekons, one of the first bands to dabble with the alt-country sound in the '80s, were from the UK. Mainman Jon Langford took the alt-country sound even further with his solo work and his group the Waco Brothers, who have been recording in Chicago since 1995. Mekons member Sally Timms also released an alt-country album in '98. The Cowboy Junkies, another early contender in the alt-country scene (although obviously not so much any more), started recording in 1985 in Canada. Tarnation, who started recording in '93, were from San Francisco. The Be Good Tanyas and Jolie Holland are also from the Bay Area (although one could argue, I suppose, that the Tanyas and Holland are really more part of the new-grass scene than alt-country). Trailer Bride, another early contender in the goth-country scene, started making music in North Carolina in '93.

...Point being, I think the alt-country thing has been going on for a while in other places before some of the bands in Denver who are currently dominating the scene started making music, and I'm curious to know how you think the Denver sound differs from those other bands. In some cases, the Denver bands might sound a bit more "old timey" and authentic, but not by much.

In my opinion, and quite a few others I believe, the "Denver Sound" differs because it's much darker in sound and yes, it tends to have a bit more "old timey" feel to it, especially due to the instruments used.

Alt. Country, I agree, has been around since Gram Parsons, who is considered the pioneer by most critics.

If you take 16 HP, WH, SCAC and Munly and put them next to any other alt. country artist or band, they stand out quite a bit. It always seemed to be like Southern Gothic writings of O'Connor, Faukner, Crews, McCarthy and others put to music. The bands mentioned plus Devotchka, Taratella and The Kalamath Brothers all have members that spent time within the ranks of one band, The Denver Gentlemen. I think because so many of these artists spent time in TDG then started another band, all these bands popped up at the same time with similar sounds or styles or instruments or whatever. All these bands helped put Denver on the musical map, thus the "Denver Sound" came about because before these bands, what music came out of Denver or Colorado in such mass quanity and quality?

I also believe that most, not all, alt. country derives directly from "Outlaw Country" of the 60's and 70's with punk rock influences added in. Most artists within this genre will tell you that's what they listened to as kids.

But, where alt. country artists will tell you during their teenage years they listened to a lot of punk or rock, these Dark Roots/Gothic Americana artists will mention a few goth bands, post punk bands and possibly some no wave.

Of course, none of this is completely accurate. You can't pinpoint a genre to it's specifics and excpect everyone to fall under the descriptions.

I'm really just making this up as I go.

As long as Jay Munly is still around making music the Denver Sound will never truly be dead, however it definitely isn't the mecca for Gothic Country that it once was. That's not to say that the sound is dying because there are artists from all over the country and abroad that play the style, and it's a pretty good mix of urban and rural bands too.

Thirtiesgirl, this is an example of the type of music we are talking about:

I would agree that most of what I've heard from the Denver bands is darker.

No disagreement there.

Agreed, again. Among my collection of alt-country music, these are some of my favorites, including Devotchka.

Ah, must do more research, then. I'm not too aware of music that far back.

Thanks, yes, I know. That's one of my favorite Munly tracks.

Your mix tapes a just great. I think they are the most useful introductions to this music I have come across. I really want to thank you for this. You have made a difference in my life. thanks

I would love that link too, please!

thx
 

This is absolutely a great forum! Thank you guys for all the musical inspiration.

Hey folks, thanks much for this thread. Been going on a bender of this sort of sound lately, working up stuff to listen to while I write (comics and regular-type books). Been a longtime fan of 16 Horsepower and that whole axis. Always happy to find more.

-Matt

One of the best threads I've seen on any forum.
Lonesome Wyatt is a god.

I thought this needed a revival. Here are some other similar bands/artists (mostly Dark Cabaret-ish) that haven't been mentioned, with a song each.

The Hellblinki Sextet

Hi guys!

Excellent thread!! Gothic americana is one of my favourite music genres :)

I came across this thread by accident and discovered some more goth.am. wonders such as the Interpestuals and Christian Williams (so far) so I have to thank you for that :beer:

I love 16 Horsepower. Can anyone recommend any similar artists?

Cheers

Yeah, check out this link, loads of useful artists, videos, and albums to check out.

Whoa, I'm discovering tons of great shit thanks to that. Where did you find that link?

Well that was a job and a half but all the videos have been updated.

Checked that link. But can't seem to find much in a similar vein to 16 Horspower. The music on this thread is much faster.