TheCellarTapes

Just you wait till Mirrorball reads this, You're a brave man Comus



For me I ignore what Dylan says in public, because of the way he is. Its always been Dylan's way to try and confuse whilst at the same time annoying everyone, be it the critics, his friends, his fans, even himself probably. I've not heard his new album yet, but have enjoyed the previous three from Love and Theft onwards so Im hopeful.

Mirrorball95

Really? I doubt whether you have actually 'listened' to his albums.
Now you may not get me here but what I mean is that its easy to just sit down listening to whatever album with a pessimistic pre-meditated view that his music is now crap or 'past it', but to seriously judge music I think you have to have an open mind i.e. forget about the past and concentrate on the album youre listening to alone.

Fair enough, I can accept it if you dont happen to like his music after 'Desire' as Desire is his best & he has never matched it (IMO), but that doesnt necessarily mean that all his other music is crap.
What I cannot accept is when you brand such a talented songwriter or more fittingly a great storyteller as an 'old hack' shows that you dont pay attention to the music, rather his current age; being totally irrelevant to me when it comes to the music.

When Dylan was young he was at the forefront of his era and was massively popular; at the height of his career, whatever.
But to me he had and still has a very special talent.

That talent doesn't just all of a sudden diminish once an artist reaches a certain age. Just because there not so much 'in the limelight' as such.

I think that your views on Dylan being 'past it/old hack' are very narrow minded/pessimistic based on misconceptions and unfair judgements based on his age/appearance & lengthy career (which in my opinion should be praised; not ridiculed). But your entitled to your opinion, at the end of the day..

Finally, you acknowledge that he 'can' make great music but come to the somewhat odd conclusion that he has been holding this back (i.e deliberately making supposedly 'bad' music) for the past 34 years (if you count 'Desire' as his last worthy album).
So I think your theory that he 'chooses' not to is total bull.

As for his new album, I bought it on the day it came out; also had high hopes for it after being rather let down so to speak with Neil Young's new album; & I love the album & new style he has explored throughout it & I think its one of his perhaps 'interesting' albums in a long time. The first track on the album 'Beyond Here Lies Nothin'' is fantastic & I think this album just proves that even at 66, he can still surprise people and come out with a not only good but an album with a new feel to it.

If your theory of 'just past it' or 'old hack' based on age is applicable to Dylan, then how come you give credit to Johnny Cash who is actually/or tragically was older than Dylan!!

Also you keep going on about how he didnt like Johnny Cash's comeback, is this the sole reason you disregard his music and brand him a 'old hack'??
Like I said before, that is Dylan's own personal taste, if he doesnt like Johnny Cash's comeback stuff then so what?? Why should it bother you?
It doesnt affect his music in any way shape or form!

Personally I loved Johnny Cash's American Recordings sessions & thought that Rick Rubin did a great job in bringing him back to life as such and introducing him to a whole new generation of fans, but if somebody didnt like it then fair enough.
I find this rather intriguing, 'Time Out Of Mind' (1997) is one of the few Dylan albums I own that although I have heard great things about it, I cannot yet 'get into it' as such.
There always 'comes a time' (As Neil Young once famously sang ) when

I go back over albums I couldnt get into in the past and will suddenly 'get' them and really like them.
Also Desire is my personal favourite Dylan album.

He's definitely a strange one is Dylan, but his music is still great. Also I'd urge to you to check out an album called 'Oh Mercy' (1989) which is fantastic.
Also most of his 90's output is worth checking out apart from 'Under The Red Sky' (1990) (unless you want a laugh)- I dont dislike the album as such, just would rather now listen to his other works.
In addition, for the record, 'Under The Red Sky' was actually the first Dylan album I bought!

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Mirrorball95

[QUOTE=Bulldog;651559]It's very long (as the two-DVD format might suggest), but naturally that means it's very informative. Scorsese did a great job with it - there's a kind of shopping list of all the people from the Greenwich Village scene that Dylan cited as influences (Woody Guthrie, Hank Williams, Leadbelly and about a gazillion more) throughout with snippets of their work to go with it. With the talking heads he interviews as well, there's just about every plausible avenue of information covered as well.

Great watch. I'm sure you'll enjoy it [/QUOTE

By the way I just watched the DVD, was on for about 3-4 hours man! was up mostly all night watching it, although intended to as I'm on nightshift tonight anyway. I found it very interesting to learn his biggest influence was 'Woody Guthrie' & that he went to visit him when he was ill. A
Also another thing I found interesting was the 'folk pureists' who booed him when he went electric as in my opinion he should be praised for embracing two different styles of music.

Anyway overall a very well made, well informative, excellent film.
It has actually changed my view of his early folkier works, which I wasnt too into in the past & will probably dig out for re-listening.

All In All ,like you said, a 'great watch.

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Bulldog

There was something strangely satisfying about the fans who said 'he's doing what he wants - if you don't like it you can lump it' (or something along those lines). I'm actually more a fan of his electric work myself - it's a personal taste thing. As I said earlier in the thread, I'm no huge fan of Dylan on the whole. I still like his early 'pure folk' material (for want of a better phrase), just not as much as the later stuff. Having watched the film though has made me curious enough to get hold some of it when I can though, and that's partly what makes it such a good documentary.

Very interesting film - even if he's not quite one of my favourite artists, he's got some fascinating stories to tell.

Mirrorball95

Well, I already had most of his material, including the early folk stuff when I got the movie so it was kind of an eye-opener for me & I will probably be backtracking through the albums I havent really payed much attention too.

Im a much bigger fan of his mid 70s-present stuff. I like a lot of his 80s records and feel they are massively overrated. 'Infidels' & 'Oh Mercy' to name a few.

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5-Track

I'm an "Empire Burlesque" man, myself

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Mirrorball95

Aye man, thats sort of a cross between his gospel stuff and his move back into his usual stuff. I like it.
Have you heard another called 'Knocked Out Loaded'(1986), its the one after Empire. Theres an excellent stand out track on it called 'Brownsville Girl' which runs in at about 11 mins

Also another album which i went to a lot of hassle to get but wasnt as good as I was hoping is 'Down In The Groove' (1988). He does a cover of Bryan Ferry's 'Let's Stick Together' which wears pretty thin after the first few listens.. as for the rest of the album its alright.

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5-Track

I used to cover Brownsville Girl pretty regularly...

"They Killed Him" and "License To Kill" are on Knocked Out Loaded, aren't they? And the album title maybe comes from "Junko Podner"... just a guess...

I am less familiar with Down In The Groove, I have heard it but couldn't tell you offhand what tunes are on it

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Mirrorball95

Really aye? Its a great song.
See since I've started talking about 'Empire Burlesque' & 'Knocked Out Loaded', I took them in when I was on the nightshift last night and listened to them both about 2 or 3 times each. I came to the conclusion that although they are both great albums, 'Knocked Out Loaded' is definitely the best.
Best tracks on Empire Burlesque- 'Tight Connection To My Heart', 'I'll Remember You', 'Clean Cut Kid', 'Trust Yourself' 'Emotionally Yours'.

Best tracks on Knocked Out Loaded- 'You Wanna Ramble', 'They Killed Him', 'Driftin' Too Far From The Shore', Precious Memories' (which has a reggae feel to it), 'Brownsville Girl', 'Got My Mind Made Up' (which he actually wrote with Tom Petty).

As for where the title of the album originates, I have no idea, but I remember vaguely reading something similar to what you said.

'They Killed Him' is on 'Knocked Out Loaded' but as for 'Liscense To Kill'- thats from 'Infidels' which is another great album. (which was produced with Mark Knopfler & I think he perhaps plays on a couple of the tracks).

Personaly, 'Desire' & 'Blood On The Tracks' aside, I think the 80s was his most consistent period & definitely the period I listen to most/perhaps on par to present.

Down With The Groove is alright like but not really worth talking about much.
Theres some funny songs like 'Ugliest Girl In The World' but nothing special.

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S. Flavious Mercurius

Love Bob Dylan, especially the early stuff.