is classical music like math?

cumulous_two · 03-12-2016, 12:02 AM

I hear this often, and find it mis-leading. Sure, there is the physics of sound, which has math to it. Scales are like a simple number sequence. Intervals can be represented by frequency ratios. But the actual music written with these building blocks doesn't seem like math. What do you think?

**Frownland** · 03-12-2016, 12:05 AM

It can be, but I would say no.

grindy · 03-12-2016, 12:23 AM

My first reaction was to say something sarcastic about apples, oranges and those people's voices being muffled due to their heads being up their own orifices.
But then I headed to the wikipedia page for mathematics and "...is the study of topics such as quantity (numbers), structure, space, and change" and especially "...seek out patterns and use them to formulate new conjectures" does actually apply to music.

Neapolitan · 03-12-2016, 12:31 AM

Yes, if you think of it in terms of algorithms. The "form" of a song or musical composition is very closely related to algorithms, e.g. Euclid's algorithm.

**Frownland** · 03-12-2016, 12:36 AM

OP: are you referring to the classical period of music or the more colloquial usage of "classical music"?

I think that while music is quantifiable in a similar way to math, the rules that lie in mathematics keeps me from comparing them too much. There are certain truths in math that can be approached in different ways but lead to similar basic theorems and such. Like any art form, music isn't cut and dry. The cuts in math are clear and defined, while music is murky and subjective. Most of the greats in the classical world are considered as such when they break or bend the rules and develop a new style.

I forgot how this post started off but I feel like I made some good points.

Neapolitan · 03-12-2016, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

OP: are you referring to the classical period of music or the more colloquial usage of "classical music"?

I think that while music is quantifiable in a similar way to math, the rules that lie in mathematics keeps me from comparing them too much. There are certain truths in math that can be approached in different ways but lead to similar basic theorems and such. Like any art form, music isn't cut and dry. The cuts in math are clear and defined, while music is murky and subjective. Most of the greats in the classical world are considered as such when they break or bend the rules and develop a new style.

I forgot how this post started off but I feel like I made some good points.

Whenever you minus an accepted rule and add your own rule, you're doing Math!

**Frownland** · 03-12-2016, 12:45 AM

So 2+2=5 because my new rule says that the second two is the new three. Makes sense.

cumulous_two · 03-12-2016, 01:08 AM

Music murky and subjective? Within the music norm itself, I find good music to be very clear. Perhaps you mean that, since its medium is sound, and not language, that we don't really know what it means And subjective?...expressing feelings....not always. Often, like in Bach, it's almost purely objective craftsmanship, just by the rules...(but with amazing sound)

cumulous_two · 03-12-2016, 01:28 AM

(I mean "classical music" in general, not the Classical era.)

**Frownland** · 03-12-2016, 01:59 AM

Classical music allows for this and Bach.

03-12-2016, 12:02 AM	#1 (permalink)
cumulous_two Groupie Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 11	is classical music like math? I hear this often, and find it mis-leading. Sure, there is the physics of sound, which has math to it. Scales are like a simple number sequence. Intervals can be represented by frequency ratios. But the actual music written with these building blocks doesn't seem like math. What do you think?

03-12-2016, 12:05 AM	#2 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	It can be, but I would say no. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

03-12-2016, 12:23 AM	#3 (permalink)
grindy . Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: . Posts: 7,201	My first reaction was to say something sarcastic about apples, oranges and those people's voices being muffled due to their heads being up their own orifices. But then I headed to the wikipedia page for mathematics and "...is the study of topics such as quantity (numbers), structure, space, and change" and especially "...seek out patterns and use them to formulate new conjectures" does actually apply to music. __________________ *A smell of petroleum prevails throughout.*

03-12-2016, 12:36 AM	#5 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	OP: are you referring to the classical period of music or the more colloquial usage of "classical music"? I think that while music is quantifiable in a similar way to math, the rules that lie in mathematics keeps me from comparing them too much. There are certain truths in math that can be approached in different ways but lead to similar basic theorems and such. Like any art form, music isn't cut and dry. The cuts in math are clear and defined, while music is murky and subjective. Most of the greats in the classical world are considered as such when they break or bend the rules and develop a new style. I forgot how this post started off but I feel like I made some good points. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

03-12-2016, 12:45 AM	#7 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	So 2+2=5 because my new rule says that the second two is the new three. Makes sense. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

03-12-2016, 01:08 AM	#8 (permalink)
cumulous_two Groupie Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 11	Music murky and subjective? Within the music norm itself, I find good music to be very clear. Perhaps you mean that, since its medium is sound, and not language, that we don't really know what it means And subjective?...expressing feelings....not always. Often, like in Bach, it's almost purely objective craftsmanship, just by the rules...(but with amazing sound)

03-12-2016, 01:28 AM	#9 (permalink)
cumulous_two Groupie Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 11	(I mean "classical music" in general, not the Classical era.)

03-12-2016, 01:59 AM	#10 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Classical music allows for this and Bach. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x