pc issue of the day pt. 4:33 isn't music

The Batlord · 07-06-2015, 03:52 PM

How about someone actually answer me about why it matters what the composition of 4'33 actually is. What would be the difference in the end result if John Cage just drew a picture of Dickbutt on every page? If it makes no difference, then why does the existence of a composition matter?

Edit: Hell, Dickbutt might make the performers laugh, thereby making even more "music".

**Frownland** · 07-06-2015, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

How about someone actually answer me about why it matters what the composition of 4'33 actually is.

You are the only one harping on this. The concept is the key point of the piece, the composition determines the length of time. Could you explain why it matters?

Machine · 07-06-2015, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

How about someone actually answer me about why it matters what the composition of 4'33 actually is. What would be the difference in the end result if John Cage just drew a picture of Dickbutt on every page? If it makes no difference, then why does the existence of a composition matter?

Edit: Hell, Dickbutt might make the performers laugh, thereby making even more "music".

He seems to be exploring the extent that a traditionally written composition can be stretched in my eyes.

The Batlord · 07-06-2015, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

You are the only one harping on this.

I don't know why. One of the key points the pro-4'33-as-music folk keep harping on about is that it is a composition, which implies that that's somehow important.

Quote:

The concept is the key point of the piece, the composition determines the length of time. Could you explain why it matters?

So it's just a more pretentious form of a clock? So if start a stop watch, and then stop it at a pre-determined point in time, can I claim to have just composed a piece of music? Or do I need sheet music for it to be considered a composition?

**Frownland** · 07-06-2015, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I don't know why. One of the key points the pro-4'33-as-music folk keep harping on about is that it is a composition, which implies that that's somehow important.

Yes it is a composition, but how it is composed does not change this fact. You could write a C note as a B# or Dbb, choosing one over the other doesn't make that note irrelevant in some composition.

Quote:

So it's just a more pretentious form of a clock? So if start a stop watch, and then stop it at a pre-determined point in time, can I claim to have just composed a piece of music? Or do I need sheet music for it to be considered a composition?

Given the fact that John Cage rarely ever performs the pieces himself, putting it on paper is necessary to convey to the musicians what (not) to do and for how long. You don't need to put it on paper for it to be a composition.

Trollheart · 07-06-2015, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland;1611107
Impossible [i

for you[/i]. I don't get some of your jokes sometimes, I don't give you an earful about it. We have different senses of humour. It happens. Get over it.

Oh you most certainly do. But I don't have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is your condescending remarks here

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-deprecation

Learn to humour.

and here

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

When an effective satire detection extension meets a web browser near you, I highly recommend looking into that.

Just because I don't get your humour sometimes doesn't mean I don't have a sense of humour, just as I would not accuse you of being any less able to detect humour if you didn't get some of my jokes. You're implying however that everyone should know when you're joking, and at least three people here have indicated this is not the case, four if you include Batty who is probably lying...

I get we have different interpretations of humour, but my not being able to "get" your jokes doesn't make mine any less valid than yours.

The Batlord · 07-06-2015, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Given the fact that John Cage rarely ever performs the pieces himself, putting it on paper is necessary to convey to the musicians what (not) to do and for how long. You don't need to put it on paper for it to be a composition.

You don't need to write it. Just tell the musicians not to play their instruments and start a timer. Bam, you've just made the composition of 4'33 irrelevant.

But let me try my hand...

Sit down at 11:30:00.

Don't play **** or I'll punch you in the nuts.

"Stop" at 11:34:33.

Love,

The guy from Mortal Kombat

I just composed that **** if you can believe it.

DwnWthVwls · 07-06-2015, 04:18 PM

No you didn't.. where's the recording?

The Batlord · 07-06-2015, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

No you didn't.. where's the recording?

Bam! Music.

**Frownland** · 07-06-2015, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Just because I don't get your humour sometimes doesn't mean I don't have a sense of humour, just as I would not accuse you of being any less able to detect humour if you didn't get some of my jokes. You're implying however that everyone should know when you're joking, and at least three people here have indicated this is not the case, four if you include Batty who is probably lying...

I get we have different interpretations of humour, but my not being able to "get" your jokes doesn't make mine any less valid than yours.

You totally missing the point after my explaining it led me to giving you a hard time. Sorry that it was a little harsh for you, I'll be nicer next time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

You don't need to write it. Just tell the musicians not to play their instruments and start a timer. Bam, you've just made the composition of 4'33 irrelevant.

You're really grasping at straws if this is really all you have to go on to claim that it isn't music. I could go and tell musicians which notes to play out of a song I thought up, but it's a lot easier to put it on paper and show it to them. What does it matter if there's an alternative? The route that Cage went was not the one you propose, the compositional route.