pc issue of the day pt. 4:33 isn't music

grtwhtgrvty · 07-06-2015, 01:22 PM

Ugh you guys it does have artistic commentary on many levels. I think he was partially trying to show the power and remind us of the validity of silence and space in music. It's about showing us the extreme of that. It's also about the nuance that classical composers and musicians often talk about, except it's not about the nuance in their instruments, but in the world around them. Everyone gets annoyed when they hear outside noises interrupting the music but what if every little annoyance is what you were meant to focus on, and what if you can allow that to interfere with the music in a way that you welcome?

Music is defined as sound in time. Obviously it doesn't take any compositional or musical talent to come up with 4'33, but even if it isn't being audibly displayed, there is rhythm, and the sound is supposed to be every little nuance around you. It's more of a tongue in cheek reminder that silence and space are important aspects of music in a society that jams its music full of every possible and that the nuance around you can bolster your musical experience instead of detracting from it.

The Batlord · 07-06-2015, 02:52 PM

How about someone actually answer me about why it matters what the composition of 4'33 actually is. What would be the difference in the end result if John Cage just drew a picture of Dickbutt on every page? If it makes no difference, then why does the existence of a composition matter?

Edit: Hell, Dickbutt might make the performers laugh, thereby making even more "music".

**Frownland** · 07-06-2015, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

How about someone actually answer me about why it matters what the composition of 4'33 actually is.

You are the only one harping on this. The concept is the key point of the piece, the composition determines the length of time. Could you explain why it matters?

The Batlord · 07-06-2015, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

You are the only one harping on this.

I don't know why. One of the key points the pro-4'33-as-music folk keep harping on about is that it is a composition, which implies that that's somehow important.

Quote:

The concept is the key point of the piece, the composition determines the length of time. Could you explain why it matters?

So it's just a more pretentious form of a clock? So if start a stop watch, and then stop it at a pre-determined point in time, can I claim to have just composed a piece of music? Or do I need sheet music for it to be considered a composition?

**Frownland** · 07-06-2015, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I don't know why. One of the key points the pro-4'33-as-music folk keep harping on about is that it is a composition, which implies that that's somehow important.

Yes it is a composition, but how it is composed does not change this fact. You could write a C note as a B# or Dbb, choosing one over the other doesn't make that note irrelevant in some composition.

Quote:

So it's just a more pretentious form of a clock? So if start a stop watch, and then stop it at a pre-determined point in time, can I claim to have just composed a piece of music? Or do I need sheet music for it to be considered a composition?

Given the fact that John Cage rarely ever performs the pieces himself, putting it on paper is necessary to convey to the musicians what (not) to do and for how long. You don't need to put it on paper for it to be a composition.

The Batlord · 07-06-2015, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Given the fact that John Cage rarely ever performs the pieces himself, putting it on paper is necessary to convey to the musicians what (not) to do and for how long. You don't need to put it on paper for it to be a composition.

You don't need to write it. Just tell the musicians not to play their instruments and start a timer. Bam, you've just made the composition of 4'33 irrelevant.

But let me try my hand...

Sit down at 11:30:00.

Don't play **** or I'll punch you in the nuts.

"Stop" at 11:34:33.

Love,

The guy from Mortal Kombat

I just composed that **** if you can believe it.

Machine · 07-06-2015, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

How about someone actually answer me about why it matters what the composition of 4'33 actually is. What would be the difference in the end result if John Cage just drew a picture of Dickbutt on every page? If it makes no difference, then why does the existence of a composition matter?

Edit: Hell, Dickbutt might make the performers laugh, thereby making even more "music".

He seems to be exploring the extent that a traditionally written composition can be stretched in my eyes.

DwnWthVwls · 07-06-2015, 03:18 PM

No you didn't.. where's the recording?

The Batlord · 07-06-2015, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

No you didn't.. where's the recording?

Bam! Music.

DwnWthVwls · 07-06-2015, 03:28 PM

Can you link me a version of 433 without the audience participation?

07-06-2015, 01:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
grtwhtgrvty jiojoijoi Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 398	Ugh you guys it does have artistic commentary on many levels. I think he was partially trying to show the power and remind us of the validity of silence and space in music. It's about showing us the extreme of that. It's also about the nuance that classical composers and musicians often talk about, except it's not about the nuance in their instruments, but in the world around them. Everyone gets annoyed when they hear outside noises interrupting the music but what if every little annoyance is what you were meant to focus on, and what if you can allow that to interfere with the music in a way that you welcome? Music is defined as sound in time. Obviously it doesn't take any compositional or musical talent to come up with 4'33, but even if it isn't being audibly displayed, there is rhythm, and the sound is supposed to be every little nuance around you. It's more of a tongue in cheek reminder that silence and space are important aspects of music in a society that jams its music full of every possible and that the nuance around you can bolster your musical experience instead of detracting from it. Last edited by grtwhtgrvty; 07-06-2015 at 01:27 PM.