Stockhausen?

grindy · 11-13-2014, 03:13 PM

To derail the thread a little more...(Sorry Ian!)

George Lewis says that the term "experimental" might be racist? Or did I misunderstand something? Would be interesting to read that essay. I am a fan of Lewis, although I'm generally not that interested in sociological interpretation and analysis of music, but this sounds intriguing.

I think Eno might still be considered weid. In an understated and partly soothing way obviously, but still...
Not sure I'd consider Kaki King particularly avantgarde. Although I might be missig something, since I don't know much of her music and mainly notice her technique, which is impressive, but nothing really new.
I'd recommend some Richard Leo Johnson, he is somewhat similar, but has much more interesting compositions, which I actually would consider avant-garde, although they are also not that far-out.

Zack · 11-14-2014, 02:21 PM

George Lewis wrote a lengthy rant about "Afrological" versus "Eurological" musical idealogies, claiming that the terms "indeterminate" and "aleatoric" (among a few others) were attempts to take the nearly exclusively African American tradition of sophisticated Jazz Improvisation and steal it, placing it in 'White' Classical tradition, but denying it's undeniable but undesirable (to Cage and others, according to Lewis) 'Black' roots. His speculation, or rather firmly made claim, was that this basically latent racism, a wish to utilize improvisation without having to credit blacks. Not saying I agree with him, just dropping it in there.

(Even sorrier, Ian!!!)

True, especially a lot of Eno's shorter pieces, like Craft on a Milk Sea, are probably a funky for the average listener, but I think things like Music for Airports or Discreet Music, some of the pieces that really raised eyebrows, probably sound like a tame film score to many. (Not dismissing it, I LOVE Eno.)

As for Kaki King, I guess I didn't mean her specifically, but things like the relatively recent vogue of strummy-drummy, complex and technical acoustic steel-string music, frequently highly syncopated, often featuring modal, quartal, or suspended harmonic approaches, etc. I guess Kaki King was a pretty poor choice, maybe someone like Andy McKee is a bit closer. But anyway, I just meant that many of the musics I would consider "avant garde" are actually pretty tame sounding, but are nevertheless new and discreet from what we've all heard before, even if they feel more familiar than, say Stockhausen. (See, Ian? I tied it back in!)

But, I'm off to go listen to this Richard Leo Johnson chap, of whom I've never heard. Thanks for the recomendation.

(And really, I really am sorry, Ian!

QwasWexExort · 11-26-2014, 03:14 PM

I'd say classical

11-13-2014, 03:13 PM	#11 (permalink)
grindy . Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: . Posts: 7,201	To derail the thread a little more...(Sorry Ian!) George Lewis says that the term "experimental" might be racist? Or did I misunderstand something? Would be interesting to read that essay. I am a fan of Lewis, although I'm generally not that interested in sociological interpretation and analysis of music, but this sounds intriguing. I think Eno might still be considered weid. In an understated and partly soothing way obviously, but still... Not sure I'd consider Kaki King particularly avantgarde. Although I might be missig something, since I don't know much of her music and mainly notice her technique, which is impressive, but nothing really new. I'd recommend some Richard Leo Johnson, he is somewhat similar, but has much more interesting compositions, which I actually would consider avant-garde, although they are also not that far-out. __________________ *A smell of petroleum prevails throughout.*

11-14-2014, 02:21 PM	#12 (permalink)
Zack Music Addict Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Brunswick, Maine Posts: 79	George Lewis wrote a lengthy rant about "Afrological" versus "Eurological" musical idealogies, claiming that the terms "indeterminate" and "aleatoric" (among a few others) were attempts to take the nearly exclusively African American tradition of sophisticated Jazz Improvisation and steal it, placing it in 'White' Classical tradition, but denying it's undeniable but undesirable (to Cage and others, according to Lewis) 'Black' roots. His speculation, or rather firmly made claim, was that this basically latent racism, a wish to utilize improvisation without having to credit blacks. Not saying I agree with him, just dropping it in there. (Even sorrier, Ian!!!) True, especially a lot of Eno's shorter pieces, like Craft on a Milk Sea, are probably a funky for the average listener, but I think things like Music for Airports or Discreet Music, some of the pieces that really raised eyebrows, probably sound like a tame film score to many. (Not dismissing it, I LOVE Eno.) As for Kaki King, I guess I didn't mean her specifically, but things like the relatively recent vogue of strummy-drummy, complex and technical acoustic steel-string music, frequently highly syncopated, often featuring modal, quartal, or suspended harmonic approaches, etc. I guess Kaki King was a pretty poor choice, maybe someone like Andy McKee is a bit closer. But anyway, I just meant that many of the musics I would consider "avant garde" are actually pretty tame sounding, but are nevertheless new and discreet from what we've all heard before, even if they feel more familiar than, say Stockhausen. (See, Ian? I tied it back in!) But, I'm off to go listen to this Richard Leo Johnson chap, of whom I've never heard. Thanks for the recomendation. (And really, I really am sorry, Ian! __________________ The Passage of... ------- (Classical Synth) Danceables ------- (Dance Synth with a Latin Flair) Meanderings ------- (Classical Synth) Raven ------- (Rock Opera)

11-26-2014, 03:14 PM	#13 (permalink)
QwasWexExort Groupie Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 4	I'd say classical