Long songs?

Zack · 11-14-2014, 03:05 PM

Definitely! I mean, Mahler's 3rd Symphony is like an hour and a half or more, and it's a classic of symphonic repertoire. It's not at all repetitive.

Honestly, I think that monotonous yet interesting pieces, at least in my experience, and in the reactions of others, tend to go for interesting timbral and "mood" choices, rather than interesting melodic lines or harmonic progressions. There's a limit to how long a fantastically noodly woodly bebop alto sax can hold your attention for, but that same sax, playing with tone and extended technique and drones, and subtle harmonic tensions, can keep me and apparently many others entertained for a long time.

I think the difference is that something like a melody or chord progression requires constant, vigilant focus to make sense, to be interesting. If you come in half way through a measure, it sounds confusing and wrong. If you tune out for a bit, you loose your context and sense of place within the form.

With a more consistent, monotonous piece, you can come in anywhere and get the "right" experience, so tuning in and out and drifting away, and then focusing on the changing tone colour, and then vegging out again, and then chatting a bit, and then tuning back in, you can maintain the ambiance and immersion in the artistic cohesion of the piece. (Does that make sense??? I'm not sure...)

I forget who said this, some towering figure of Tunisian Núba, I believe, something to the effect of, "Our music should be like a garden, everything is beautiful, nothing offends, nothing startles, nothing surprises, I can look at it when I want, and then look away, I can view a part of it or not view it, but every part should be similar and beautiful, so that wether I am looking or not, the garden will be enjoyable."

I butchered what he said, and I forget who it was, but you get the idea. Traditional Núba (kind of like halfway between a suite and a highly structured program) could go on for hours. Like, six or more, I believe. (Though they are generally shorter in common practice.)

Zack · 11-15-2014, 11:46 AM

Found that quote, about long forms of music and gardens. As advice for how to appreciate Núba, Manoubi Snoussi compared the music to an Arab garden, and said,

"There I will stand and look around. I may turn to this side or that and the view will be the same. There is nothing irregular, nothing disturbing my mind. And ... everything comes towards me. I am able to allow it to come or not, according to my mind, I can accept or refuse. There is nothing disturbing or alarming me. Thus it is with our music."

To me, that's the key to a successful loooong piece of music. Or at least, one key.

Chula Vista · 11-15-2014, 12:04 PM

QwasWexExort · 11-26-2014, 03:14 PM

Yeah it's really about how the song can keep you interested throughout I think.

Machine · 11-30-2014, 03:13 AM

I love listening to long songs and very short songs it really depends, listening to something like the behemoth that is The Seer by Swans does not feel like a chore but rather a soundscape that I become emotionally invested in, the same goes for The Disintegration Tapes which last last nearly an hour but never get boring possibly due to the unconventional presentation of the song itself. Whereas I feel in a case of conventional linear pop songs I feel there is a limit of about 7 or 8 minutes before something needs to end.

Zack · 12-02-2014, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machine

... does not feel like a chore but rather a soundscape ... Whereas in a case of conventional linear songs there is a limit of about 7 or 8 minutes before something needs to end.

Yes. That.

DeadChannel · 12-07-2014, 09:15 PM

I love post rock and drone. Often I want a piece out music that can envelop me entirely for an extended period of time.

**Exo** · 12-09-2014, 02:29 PM

Mondo once showed me a song that lasted like ten years or something crazy like that. I can't remember the song or artist though. Frown may know.

Mondo Bungle · 12-09-2014, 02:40 PM

I'm sure it was this Bull of Heaven

Their song that's 343000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years long is where it's at.

Gotta love their genre list from wikipedia:

They're actually cool though. They just have all these puzzle pieces made from a continuous generation of noise that are like millions and trillions of years long. They do genuinely have some good stuff in there.

**Exo** · 12-09-2014, 02:50 PM

LOL. I said ten.

11-14-2014, 03:05 PM	#11 (permalink)
Zack Music Addict Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Brunswick, Maine Posts: 79	Definitely! I mean, Mahler's 3rd Symphony is like an hour and a half or more, and it's a classic of symphonic repertoire. It's not at all repetitive. Honestly, I think that monotonous yet interesting pieces, at least in my experience, and in the reactions of others, tend to go for interesting timbral and "mood" choices, rather than interesting melodic lines or harmonic progressions. There's a limit to how long a fantastically noodly woodly bebop alto sax can hold your attention for, but that same sax, playing with tone and extended technique and drones, and subtle harmonic tensions, can keep me and apparently many others entertained for a long time. I think the difference is that something like a melody or chord progression requires constant, vigilant focus to make sense, to be interesting. If you come in half way through a measure, it sounds confusing and wrong. If you tune out for a bit, you loose your context and sense of place within the form. With a more consistent, monotonous piece, you can come in anywhere and get the "right" experience, so tuning in and out and drifting away, and then focusing on the changing tone colour, and then vegging out again, and then chatting a bit, and then tuning back in, you can maintain the ambiance and immersion in the artistic cohesion of the piece. (Does that make sense??? I'm not sure...) I forget who said this, some towering figure of Tunisian Núba, I believe, something to the effect of, "Our music should be like a garden, everything is beautiful, nothing offends, nothing startles, nothing surprises, I can look at it when I want, and then look away, I can view a part of it or not view it, but every part should be similar and beautiful, so that wether I am looking or not, the garden will be enjoyable." I butchered what he said, and I forget who it was, but you get the idea. Traditional Núba (kind of like halfway between a suite and a highly structured program) could go on for hours. Like, six or more, I believe. (Though they are generally shorter in common practice.) __________________ The Passage of... ------- (Classical Synth) Danceables ------- (Dance Synth with a Latin Flair) Meanderings ------- (Classical Synth) Raven ------- (Rock Opera)

11-15-2014, 11:46 AM	#12 (permalink)
Zack Music Addict Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Brunswick, Maine Posts: 79	Found that quote, about long forms of music and gardens. As advice for how to appreciate Núba, Manoubi Snoussi compared the music to an Arab garden, and said, "There I will stand and look around. I may turn to this side or that and the view will be the same. There is nothing irregular, nothing disturbing my mind. And ... everything comes towards me. I am able to allow it to come or not, according to my mind, I can accept or refuse. There is nothing disturbing or alarming me. Thus it is with our music." To me, that's the key to a successful loooong piece of music. Or at least, one key. __________________ The Passage of... ------- (Classical Synth) Danceables ------- (Dance Synth with a Latin Flair) Meanderings ------- (Classical Synth) Raven ------- (Rock Opera)

11-15-2014, 12:04 PM	#13 (permalink)
Chula Vista Toasted Poster Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SoCal by way of Boston Posts: 11,332	__________________ “The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

11-30-2014, 03:13 AM	#15 (permalink)
Machine moon lake inc. Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Detroit Posts: 2,125	I love listening to long songs and very short songs it really depends, listening to something like the behemoth that is The Seer by Swans does not feel like a chore but rather a soundscape that I become emotionally invested in, the same goes for The Disintegration Tapes which last last nearly an hour but never get boring possibly due to the unconventional presentation of the song itself. Whereas I feel in a case of conventional linear pop songs I feel there is a limit of about 7 or 8 minutes before something needs to end. __________________ boost my ego listen to me stroke my delay pedal ever wanted to hear death grips songs... but they're acoustic? me neither.

12-09-2014, 02:29 PM	#18 (permalink)
Exo All day jazz and biscuits Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 7,354	Mondo once showed me a song that lasted like ten years or something crazy like that. I can't remember the song or artist though. Frown may know. __________________ LastFM SUPREME POO BAH MODERATOR EXTRAORDINAIRE

11-26-2014, 03:14 PM	#14 (permalink)
QwasWexExort Groupie Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 4	Yeah it's really about how the song can keep you interested throughout I think.

12-07-2014, 09:15 PM	#17 (permalink)
DeadChannel Music Addict Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Canada Posts: 1,259	I love post rock and drone. Often I want a piece out music that can envelop me entirely for an extended period of time.

12-09-2014, 02:50 PM	#20 (permalink)
Exo All day jazz and biscuits Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 7,354	LOL. I said ten. __________________ LastFM SUPREME POO BAH MODERATOR EXTRAORDINAIRE