Trout Mask Replica vs. The Velvet Underground & Nico
 

Trout Mask Replica, here. There is never a dull moment for me on that piece of art, even when the Captain takes a moment for an a Capella piece. I do hold a massive amount of respect for the Velvet Underground record, even though it is edged out by White Light, White Heat. The Velvet Underground and Nico does have a few skippers on it, especially the more Nico-oriented songs, while TMR has 28 beautiful tracks on it.

On the other hand, I prefer the artwork of VU and Nico as opposed to TMR, but still.
Trout Mask Replica 10/10
The Velvet Underground and Nico 9/10

Don't think I'll really be surprising anyone with my vote, though.

I would have to say TMR as well, and I haven't even given that more than three listens, whereas TVU&N has at least 10 plays under it's belt.

Love both, and you are right to say neither is "objectively superior" as both are clearly so great.

Going to listen to both in a row now, I may edit this later :)

Are you trying to drive me insane? I know it's a bit cliche, but "Trout Mask Replica" and "The Velvet Underground & Nico" are what got me into Avant-Garde music. I listened to Trout Mask first, but it didn't grab me immediately, but anyway. I can't remember why or when exactly I picked up both records, I think I may have downloaded them on a whim.

Well, I keep going in the other direction in terms of where I want to go, so I'm gonna keep this short. "The Velvet Underground & Nico" is what overall upped my appreciation of Rock & Roll as well as introducing me to new concepts and genres. "Trout Mask Replica" is what wanted me to be as strange as I could be, to play something amazing, but strangely at the same time. I'm just gonna go with "The Velvet Underground & Nico" before I drive myself insane (as it gets played more frequently than Trout Mask).

Two people voted, but did not write as to why. This is what I hate about music banter, otherwise--apart from the trolls--it is a fantastic site.

Trout Mask, I guess, it's far more rewarding and never wears out its welcome - though it has to be said that when I try to learn the album, i found it's mostly random notes thrown together - i also heard some band played different things on their respective instruments instead of a cohesive song, it came out sounding like TMR

VU & N is seminal sure, but i didn't really like side 2 all that much

I was guilty of voting without writing anything. I was tired and couldn't be bothered, but now I will!
Both are undoubtedly fantastic albums, and both deserve masses of respect for their influence and innovation. The album I enjoy more though is The Velvet Underground and Nico. In terms of influence, it gave more to punk and such, my preferred genres and I respect i for that. In terms of sound I enjoy it more too, Reed's and Nico's vocals are both fantastic and I would rank both amongst the most distinctive voices in music. The guitar, the bass, the wild drumming. I just love it. When I was younger it was the most mysterious album on my dad's shelf, it had a sort of special quality about it and I think it still does today. The band have a mystic surrounding them, Andy Warhol's involvement adds to that. When I did actually get around to listening to it, I was very moved. It's just an amazing, unique album(if you discount all the copycats).

They're both 5 star works of genius but over the years the Beefheart has spent a little more time on my stereos.

i would have top go with VU all the way.....to be honest Trout mask for the most part annoys me....and must be taken in small doses (i'm not saying i don't find it amazing and influencial) just annoying when attempted all at once.....whereas the VU and Nico is sublime tio mine ears :)

The VU & Nico, hands down. It is the most important album to me in terms of the development of my musical palette. The songs are beautifully crafted, full of depth and meaning, whilst despite the experimentation that fizzes and crashes throughout, there is an accessibility to the music. It's an album that will never lose its appeal, one of my favourites for sure.

I appreciate TMR for it's innovation, and do enjoy it from time to time - but it's an album I respect more than like. There are at least 3 Beefheart albums that I gain more of a positive listening experience from.

ARGH. I am currently at the beginning of Heroin and I am already starting to change my mind... Not even hot the best song on the album (I'll Be Your Mirror).

Agree with Bob about TMR after listening to it throughout the day. Tough ask to get through it all.

Also, it's insane that I discovered Captain Beefheart in HMV... It literally blows my mind that I bought the album on the strength of the cover... in HMV!

I go with The VU. I'm not a big fan of Nico but I really like the rest of the band. They were really experimental without going off the deep end, like Beefheart. That's not to say I don't appreciate Beefheart, I do. I like his music. The VU, to me, is just quite a bit better. Sneer said it best when he/she said "the songs are beautifully crafted, full of depth and meaning, whilst despite the experimentation fizzes and crashes throughout, there is an accessibility to the music."

Having never been able to finish either album, I would have to go with VU&N. "Venus in furs" is a great song, and is one of my favorite scenes in gus van sants "Last Days"


I've always wanted to love beefheart because he's such a nutcase, but never able. I might not have a mature enough palette to appreciate him. Certain songs like "ella guru", which had a clear melody I could enjoy, but most of it was just too abstract.

It's crazy that he couldn't read and spent his childhood in his parents basement making pots

i have to say tvu is the better but listening to tmr i can also see the preparation it took to create and perform. but jack not just out of the two but any band who is your favorite and least favorite musician,songwriter,or band?

why?

Well, I went ahead and voted for Trout Mask Replica. While both are veritably important albums to me and have both garnered about the same amount of listens, I am more inclined to favor TMR due to its innovation and uniqueness. There's so much crammed into the album, and I am always surprised with each listen.

I mean... it's so many different things... It's a sound collage of Beefheart's crazy ideas and his various experiences. It's a record of traditional American music. It features an almost completely unique and different way of composing music. I mean... even the poetry (yes, poetry) behind the album is complex and well thought-out. What other album can boast the lyrical influence of Dadaism, Surrealism, and that of Langston Hughes' use of traditional blues idioms?

Another characteristic of the album that intrigues me is what Fred Frith had said in the 70s... it managed to harness the spontaneity and idiosyncratic aesthetic of free improvisation and convert it into something that was entirely composed and repeatable (aside from Beefheart and his cousin's use of saxophones, musettes, bass clarinets, etc).

I adore The Velvet Underground's debut album, and anyone who knows me knows I do. This was a very difficult choice to make, but Trout Mask Replica wins by a hair... (I would describe my love for The Velvet Underground & Nico, but I feel I have ranted and raved about it enough to where you could find a few throughout the site)


You're asking a person who is relatively obsessed with music to name his favorite artist in the history of music. There are so many genres and so many variations of those genres that it's rather impossible to answer, haha.

For me, The Velvet Underground & Nico would be my preferred choice for listening pleasure, but Trout Mask Replica would be my choice for curiosity value. Today, pleasure trumps curiosity, so it's Velvet Underground.

everyone who frequents albums like tmr have specific likes and dislikes whether u know it or not thats why i asked who was your least favorite also. see as for me finding my favorite is easy but for the other i just try to opposite from my favorite bands so what would be ur least favorite

Is it impossible to like two entirely different things like it is for some posters to use proper grammar?

I'm not sure how comparable these albums really are. Some of the VU album is experimental but not all of it. And TMR is a double album too.

its the internet not english class hop off your high horse and pay attention to what the post really says...

Did you do this? You seem focused on the height of my horse, aside from the fact that it is a bicycle. But it is possible for people to enjoy diverse things, even if one entirely counteracts the other.

At first listen, The VU and N didn't seem anything like an avant-garde album, just a great record. But after several spins, after all it is a great record, I saw the unconventionality within that was unfound at the time of the composition. But TMR on the other hand, it kind of punches you in the face with its avant-gardism.

Yes, it's the internet, but if you want to be taken seriously on this board use proper grammar. You also need an artsy avatar, or we won't pay attention to your silly little posts.

neither is mine

Shhhhhh, he doesn't know that!

Today, I don`t really listen to either of these albums very often; TMR is too exhausting, and VU is too flawed, but my vote goes unhesitatingly to TMR because of the hours of pleasure it has given me in the past.

VU has some great tracks, but it also has a couple of throw-aways, and even the great tracks (with the possible exception of Heroin) have their slack moments. Sunday Morning for instance, doesn`t really work for me; it`s slow, which is ok, but isn`t there something false or unconvincing about Lou Reed`s crooning style ? I wish they`d given the song to Nico instead - her languid, smokey voice would`ve suited the mood of the song so well... But for me, this is an album of "what ifs", and gives the impression of being too hurriedly put together.
Beefheart, on the other hand, never lets the pace slacken; he packs something of interest into almost ever second of the album. He demanded a lot from the Magic Band, and though listening to TMR demands a lot from us, the rewards make it worthwhile; the vitality of invention, the extraordinarily complex playing, and of course the lyrics.

Maybe it`s a bit unfair to compare two lyricists with such different intentions and styles, but this is a "vs" thread after all, so here goes:-
First, an example of Lou Reed`s lyrics, which are usually described as "spare" :-

"He`s never early, he`s always late.
First thing you learn is that you`ve always got to wait.
I`m waiting for my man "

Here, LR takes three lines to tell us that he`s waiting for a drug dealer who isn`t punctual. Set apart from the sinister chugging beat of the music, the main strength or the lyrics comes from the frisson that it`s about drugs, not from the words themselves. If we imagine that LR is singing about his mailman, we can see just how flat his words are, and we have to wonder if "spare" is not a euphemism for "boring".

Then we have Captain Beefheart :-

Broma' seltzer blue umbrella keeps her up off the ground.
Round red sombreros wrap her high-tap horsey shoes;
When she unfurls her umbrella, Pachuco`s got the blues.

In his three lines the vocabulary is rich, the imagery is vivid and the ideas are tumbling over each other to get out. So, yes, I`m voting for Trout Mask.

I believe that while Trout Mask Replica has done more for avant-garde music, it's hard to deny that The Velvet Underground and Nico expanded the avant-garde community. Most avant-gardists that I know have been drawn into the genre through Frank Zappa, free jazz, and/or The Velvet Underground and Nico (along with their other records, of course).

Trout Mask Replica and VU & Nico are totally seperate imo. They're both experimental, but like, Trout Mask is like nonsense, so more avant garde. VU & Nico has beautiful lyrics and is less chaotic. Overall VU & Nico is better, but imo TMR epitomizes the genre, and is artistic in its own way.

I went with TMR because of how influential it is for the genre, whereas VU & Nico was more influential on alternative genres than experimental.

Tough decision though.

Both are pretty landmark albums and both are, to me, fairly overrated. Going further, both are hallmarked by what I consider to be some of the most annoying vocals ever recorded. With respect to & Nico though, the entire album isn't replete with her musings, so I take the good with the bad.

I've never been able to really listen to Beefheart or TMR, but I respect it quite a bit for it's creative genius. On the other hand I love VU, but just happen to hate the sound of Nico's voice. I think VU have put out better albums. I'd say both White Light, White Heat and Loaded are better than & Nico, but I tend to be of the minority in believing that. Even though I'm not a fan of the album or the artist, I'm going to say that Trout Mask Replica is a better album as a whole.

It's very ambiguous, and it takes thought to make sense of the lyrics, like most avant garde.

I mean the entire album sounds like an earnest attempt at being artfully random, so nonsense isn't too much of a stretch when describing it.

I agree, Nicos voice is pretty unbearable.

TMR is the better avant-garde album, but that doesn't make it the better album overall. VU & Nico is overall the better album.

Theres one instance when I like her voice, in the song "these days".