Freebase Dali

I always just considered it idle jamming, which invariably happens in every band's practice room until the lead singer starts whining...

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TockTockTock

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Originally Posted by Freebase Dali I always just considered it idle jamming, which invariably happens in every band's practice room until the lead singer starts whining...

Technically, yes. Well... just as long as the members aren't completely falling back on any specific timbres, rhythms, etc that are associated with other genres, then yea... But... often times free improvisation requires a lot of thought and attention enable to make a decent recording or live performance. If you're unable to do this, then the music will end up being dull and repetitive.

I also meant to ask why is it that Group Ongaku never receive the credit they deserve for helping create free improvisation. Frequently, I encounter people citing aleatoric compositions (music centered around chance operations) and free jazz as being the predecessors to the genre even though Group Ongaku were making free improvisational music around the time when free jazz's inception. As far as documented music is concerned... they invented free improvisation.

mr dave

I find it's like a transcendental meditative exercise where in retrospect you can tell when your conscious mind 'shuts off' and you're able to experience the music in the moment, being everything and nothing at once and existing with the sound of your note in the moment.

As you mentioned, getting over the Ego is the biggest challenge. It's the distinction between a situation like Freebase Dali mentions with a typical rock band farting out randomness until the singer starts whining and a group of musicians creating something special. I find a lot of musicians are hung up on their ego, it limits the musical risks they're willing to take for fear of saving face.

As for Group Ongaku, I think it's splitting hair at this point. From what I gather they started around the same time as Ornette Coleman was solidifying his philosophical approach to music. Being on opposite sides of the planet in an era before instant communication I think it's more of a combined random synergistic approach to a new style rather than any sort of copycat action.

Though I'd suggest digging for a pre-1959 clip if you're going to make the claim they invented the style.

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TockTockTock

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Originally Posted by mr dave Being on opposite sides of the planet in an era before instant communication I think it's more of a combined random synergistic approach to a new style rather than any sort of copycat action.

Yes... that is basically what I was implying.

EDIT: That and that it is impossible for free jazz to have influenced the earliest examples of the style. However, it did have an effect on musicians such as Derek Bailey and (to a lesser extent) Gruppo di Improvvisazione di Nuova Consonanza.

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Though I'd suggest digging for a pre-1959 clip if you're going to make the claim they invented the style.

Why is that? Is there any documented evidence that shows there were musicians making this kind of music before '59?

mr dave

Sorry you're right, I was thinking more in terms of the free improvisation that was already taking place within Jazz at the time as opposed to the more modern avant-garde style of free improv they present.

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Howard the Duck

it's just not following any "box" or scale

it contains element of chromaticism, and atonal scales

i base my free jazz on Trout Mask Replica, usually

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