Alva Noto - Transform (2001) [SAA Album Club discussion Thread]

[clutnuckle]

Originally Posted by dankrsta

I think you're nitpicking here. If I follow your logic then I couldn't attribute any adjective to music that I would to people. So I couldn't say some piece of music is emotional, or cold; even you said 'demanding of your attention'. Well, that's human trait, right? I could say, if music can demand something, then it can also claim importance. But, the thing is, if I, as a listener, find that importance is justified, because going deeper into it I was rewarded, I wouldn't call it pretentious. However, when there's nothing beneath to justify it, well, then, that's when using the term 'pretentious' is warranted.

That's not what pretentiousness is. That's just inaccuracy misleading you. Because the song in question NEVER told you it was going to be mind-blowing. Perhaps a pretentious artist did. That artist is likely pretentious in that context when discussing that particular song/album/whatever.

Terms like 'emotional' and 'sad' I can sort of see being applied to music - they're so utterly general. But it's like calling a song something incredibly specific like 'jealous', not based off of angsty lyrics, but just off some sort of arbitrary decision. Such specific, situational terms never work for musical analysis.

Completely opposite of you, I would never call an artist pretentious, only his work. I don't know him as a person and I don't care what he's like. I only care for what he puts in his art. People are more complex than art. Ultimately, no matter how deep, layered and broad some work of art is, it's only an artist's expression, a point of view, an act in time and place. The artist himself is much more than what he presents there. So I could say, pretentiousness is not some absolute, inherent character trait, but only exists as an act, the way someone expresses himself in time and place. And art is only the most elaborate act.

If people are complex, why are we applying such nit-picky, overindulgent terms like 'pretentious' to music and not the artist? Don't the artists need the extra description if they're so much deeper and complex than what they create?

I don't really know what to tell you for that last part - pretentious IS a character trait by definition. Yes, a person won't ALWAYS be pretentious, the same way they won't always be jealous about something, but they've still exhibited the trait.

Though I will admit I like the bolded point, just not in terms of how music gets to carry all of the artist's personal problems; the music is pretentious because the artist was an ******* for a week? Not very fair at all.