No, if you click the numbers it shows who voted for what.

Leaving it public is the only way to ensure that all the votes are coming from actual members rather than sockpuppets.

So happy that No is winning.

This election is becoming increasingly contentious and cutthroat. We need Fox News for coverage.

I can cover it if you like.

Knock yourself out.

so this only covers things not in the lounge? am I reading this correctly?

I voted that I don't know, because several people have made strong points on both sides of the debate that have changed my initial views. I'm in favor of a potential trial of new/updated rule enforcement, but I don't see how it could work unless everyone was on board and we could have intelligent discussion about what did or didn't work throughout the trial run, but at this point I foresee a bunch of sad sabotage.

I've also recently realized that any issues I have regarding musicbanter are with specific members that I just don't like much, not necessarily with the mods or the way things are done on a general level. And that's just a personal problem.

Edit: Yac's post in the initial discussion thread was significant. - in trying to decide how to proceed I feel stuck in a loop of "why can't we just all get along and offer constructive ideas to find a middle ground and ultimately better our community" but this whole discussion got so ****ing snarky, it's disappointing.

Edit 2: I also just want to put out there that supporting a change in our current situation doesn't mean I don't appreciate the mods and everything they do. Could the middle ground in this simply be having more mods to lighten the load and enable broader enforcement of our current rules?

I said I'd quit posting in this thread and I'll change that and say I'll stay out of discussions.

I guess I can answer questions :) Short version; yes - you are reading it correctly.

Others have suggested that leaving the Lounge out of this so that people have a place to post pretty much like they do today is a good idea. I've incorporated that into the suggestion, so then the lounge threads would have special rules that allow for more freedom for its members.

edit :

I've also edited the first post and added that implementation should start with a trial run.

I discussed the thread title with Batlord on PMs after my last post and he had some convincing arguments. I've now asked LoathsomePete (who was online at the time) to change the title into something less loaded.

hm see I guess my feelings are that the music part of the forums has never been a problem in my eyes. the lounge seems to be where the most animosity happens. I think I agree that the lounge should be "more free" but imo if theres a place keeping new members (or old ones for that matter) from participating, it's the current lounge culture.

I should clarify that by The Lounge, I mean only The Lounge and not its sub-forums. That's the way I understood it when it was suggested in the discussion thread.

I recommend that further discussion of the suggestion itself takes place in the suggestion's own thread : http://www.musicbanter.com/announcem...forcement.html

I voted no, but I do agree that we probably need to bolster the mod team.

I only voted yes in hopes of being a mod.

I'm surprised it isn't more of a blowout tbh. How long is the voting open for?

^I imagine the voting will go until the Yes option exceeds the No option. Hope that's not true, but I imagine that'll happen.

Ahahaa^ you wrong fo DAT.
Suppose that's how Hitler came into power tho right?

I think maybe this poll could be better proposed without trapping people into a package deal they may not fully agree with. (or like, how about not trying to pull a U.S. congress stunt)

Subject: Vote on these proposed rule changes
Poll options: Each individual rule change, with the ability to vote on specific items proposed.

There is a multiple choice option for polls. I think it would be more honest and useful if that were used rather than an "all-in-one" deal.

This is a fabulous idea. I haven't voted yet, because there are some aspects of the proposal I support (such as bolstering the mod team), but others I feel are unnecessary. A multiple choice poll would be more useful and remove any "omnibus bill" possibilities.

I'm wondering why the new non-loaded thread title was sent to a mod who's offline rather than just posting it in this thread so that the first mod available can do it. Seems rather strategic.

Probably for the same reason there isn't a time limit on the poll. I imagine Tore is waiting until the Yes option is the winner, then he'll make his decision. It's what I expected from the beginning. He won't let it go until he gets his way. It's rather sad, to be honest.

Why are people bashing and piling on Tore?

He hasn't been disrespectful to anybody and has been diplomatic this entire time.

I think some of the members here should show him the same respect.

I don't really care what happens in this thread regarding the votes. As a mod, I won't consider the results as they're tabulated here, because I don't think it's representative of what people actually want, given the format, and I'd dissent in any mod debate concerning those results.

If Tore wants to create a multiple choice poll that gives people a chance to vote on items individually, then I'll go with the community and voice my support on their behalf as long as I knew they weren't being coerced into agreeing with something they may not feel as strongly for.

Show someone respect when all they want to do is shove their ideals down our throats until we agree? Yeah, I don't think that deserves any respect.

Well, that's good to hear.

Then why did you cast a vote?

We're not bashing him. We're bashing the poll, which does not provide the community at large an opportunity to vote on what they want rather than what Tore wants as a package deal.

I prefer the opportunity for people to choose what they want changed, and I'm sure there are those out there that would love to see some of Tore's suggestions implemented, as would I, but other options, not so much. So if we're to actually be fair, why not ask that the poll is fair and considers that aspect?

Because I don't agree with the whole package.

Its no winning with some of you. Its either YOUR way or the high road. Tore has been very open and cooperative this entire time.

I am not what else you people want....really.


This is sad.

Who is bashing him. They disagree with his approach, and or ideas.

I agree with some stuff but I also don't agree with some stuff, but I didn't bash him dont lump me in that.

I am confused.


So your saying you agree with some of the suggestions but not ALL?

I don't see why you would cast a vote if you agree with some things.


It makes more sense to express what you agree or disagree with versus casting a all or nothing vote.

It's not about winning. It's about doing what makes the best difference for all, not just you and your own priorities. I think most of us are reasonable and would love change for the better, but we need to make sure it's change that we all, as a community majority, agree with. If that's something that threatens your perspective as a member of it, then it's unfortunate to say that perhaps you are not in a position to be giving advice for what's best for the rest of us.

Did I lump you?

No I did not.


I said some members and I did not mention your name.

So I am not sure why you think I did...

This is actually how Tore has presented this whole thing. It's either his way or not at all. That's the problem. That's why i'd prefer not at all. There's no room for change in what he wants, which as Freebase has stated, it's a package deal, or nothing at all.

ahahahahahahahahaha

Good one

#feelingguiltyIcalledhimausedcarsalesmen;).

Exactly.

Or maybe the fact that I proposed an alternate voting solution that included individual rule changes to be voted upon independently was reason enough to not vote on a package deal. I assumed you read that part.

By not casting a vote at all, I remove myself from the opinion pool. And since my opinion is that I don't agree with everything in the package deal, and have proposed a better approach to voting on ideas, I voted no on the package deal.

Don't worry, if Tore creates another poll with individual items able to be voted on, using the multiple choice poll option, I'm sure we'll get far more usable results from the community. At least then, you can be assured that the community is speaking more accurately their perspective and we'll be screwing over less people upon implementation, which I'm sure you can get on board with.

I notice you are kinda new to this discussion.

The reason why the poll was created was because there was a prior discussion between members and Tore about some possible new rule implementations that he suggested and most of the members did not like it while some agreed with his idea.

Most of the members were insisting that they did not want rules or infractions and enjoyed the current culture of the forum.

And IMO Tore created the poll as a result of the discussions and suggestions that were discussed.

So I don't think its fair to blame the creation of the poll strictly on "what Tore wanted" when he actually talked to multiple members (for feedback) before doing it.

The consensus that was gathered from the discussion was that some members did not want rules and infractions which is why the poll is either YES or NO for rules and infractions.

This is scandalous! Stop playin. That' s hard core man and it speaks to me more than anything anyone has written thus far.

Stop the presses!