Changes to Rule Enforcement

**Janszoon** · 05-31-2015, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo

Tore, Pedestrian, NSW and I all gave up our modship for at least some overlapping, similar reasons, and those reasons were all directly related to the way in which this site is modded.

Someone said earlier in this thread that there's no point trying to introduce something like what tore is suggesting because even if we do, mods are going to give certain members preferential treatment, when in fact that is what is happening already and it has always been the case.

I have no issue whatsoever with any of the mods here but I do think the site in general is modded like crap. Drama has come up time and time again in this thread and for good reason; drama has, at times, overtaken this site. This goes back years.

Drama has overtaken this site in many ways. We have allowed trolls to roam free for months, if not years, until finally deciding to pull the trigger. These trolls have proceeded to make this site a thoroughly annoying and unpleasant place to visit. We've also had members identified as trouble-makers to the point the site becomes divided in two and brimming with discussion around whether or not said member should still be here or should be banned. This kind of discussion, frankly, should rarely spill over onto the boards, because the rules should be tight and specific enough to avoid any kind of debate. They do however also need to be enforced.

I gave up my spot modding here because the drama didn't stop at the public boards but it spilled over into the mod forum also. While on the public boards we had trolls pissing people off, and cliques forming within, some calling for them to be banned, some jumping to their defence, and so on the mod forum we had a group of moderators also discussing and debating the same people and events. Should they be banned? Have they warranted a ban? Are people being too touchy? Can't they just block them? Should they need to block them? Will there be a backlash if we ban them? Is it worth a backlash? And so on and so forth. I'm sad to say that these discussions started to resemble too closely what could be perceived as a discussion around what the mods could maybe even do to have these troublesome members effectively hang themselves in a way in which nobody would be surprised to see them permanently banned.

I attempted to create a discussion within the mod forum around a system similar to what tore is proposing, where the rules are potentially updated and where the rules are most definitely better and more consistently enforced. Not to crack down harder on the users of the forum, not to start punishing people for minor offences, but to ensure everyone is being treated in the same way. Some trolls are clever and have much more time on their hands than you may think, in which to keep coming back to disrupt and ruffle feathers, and these are the ones that always created the most discussion because one minute you think they are breaking rules and intentionally pissing people off and the next you think they are just having a laugh and are actually here for genuine reasons. With a more consistent system in place these people would be banned much earlier on, the forums would be disrupted far less, this would be a much more enjoyable place to visit, and as long as everyone is very clear on what the rules are and how they are being enforced, there should be zero debate around the actions of the mods.

If you really feel you completely understand the rules here 100% and are without a doubt that they are being enforced correctly, then fair play to you. I'm not in a place to argue. But I would suggest that maybe you just don't see it.

Some members here will be banned for insulting someone or pissing off a mod, but take a member who has been here years and if they lose their head and commit the very same offence, they will get a tap on the wrists via a subtle PM and told to stop being such a dick. Then take into consideration that we have many different mods, all with their own favourites, all with their own users that they dont care for, all modding this place very differently, because that is the system we have in place. Yes we have rules, yes we have an infraction system, but we dont use them. We allow each person we entrust with modding this place to do it their own way and how they see fit, so is it really any surprise that every few weeks or months our boards are filled with drama about the latest poster here that is ruffling peoples feathers? It happens just as much in the mod forum too, believe me. It seems worthy of considering whether that is really still the best way to run this place.

Honestly, this just makes me feel like giving up. I'd comment on all the things I disagree with about this post but it hardly seems worth it.

Chula Vista · 05-31-2015, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Honestly, this makes me feel like giving up. I'd comment on all the things I disagree will about this post but it hardly seems worth it.

I think you guys in blue are wrangling over this way too much. Just let it be. **** will happen and it will be dealt with, or maybe not.

Deep down inside, who truly cares to the point that they'll lose sleep?

Mojo · 05-31-2015, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Honestly, this just makes me feel like giving up. I'd comment on all the things I disagree with about this post but it hardly seems worth it.

Well I'm refraining from naming names, but when I was modding there were a handful of users that had all been here a long time, and the mod forum was awash with discussion about them. The majority were of the opinion they should have been banned already.

My point is it doesn't need to be a debate or a discussion.

~~Soulflower~~ · 05-31-2015, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo

Well I'm refraining from naming names, but when I was modding there were a handful of users that had all been here a long time, and the mod forum was awash with discussion about them. The majority were of the opinion they should have been banned already.

My point is it doesn't need to be a debate or a discussion.

Pretty much

This is the Bottom line.

Just ENFORCE the rules.

There doesn't need to be a discussion. In addition there should be all new moderators besides maybe one or two people.

**Janszoon** · 05-31-2015, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo

Well I'm refraining from naming names, but when I was modding there were a handful of users that had all been here a long time, and the mod forum was awash with discussion about them. The majority were of the opinion they should have been banned already.

My point is it doesn't need to be a debate or a discussion.

So basically we should be quicker to drop the banhammer on longstanding members? That doesn't seem like it would make the place a more pleasant environment.

Chula Vista · 05-31-2015, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

So basically we should be quicker to drop the banhammer on longstanding members? That doesn't seem like it would make the place a more pleasant environment.

If a newbie screws up it's worse than if a long time member screws up in the same manner?

50 shades of grey indeed.

Neapolitan · 05-31-2015, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

If a newbie screws up it's worse than if a long time member screws up in the same manner?

Not that it is worse if a new member does it. There is less backlass if a new member (who exhibits obvious trollish behavior) gets banned than one who's been here a while forms friendship and has allegiances kinda like Survival Island.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

50 shades of grey indeed.

New versus old members isn't the 50 shades of grey imo. It's what constitutes "trolling." It is such a catch-all for all kind of behavior, from deliberate starting fights with hot topic threads to replying only with *.gifs to making sarcastic, snarky, stupid, silly, sassy, saucy, smart-alecky or smarty-pants comments.

I can understand dealing with certain members who are really "trolling." I am not for people trolling forum members. But I wonder where the lines are going to be drawn, and who will be on the chopping block.

Since the site is seen too laxed, it can be that way for so long till like a pendulum it will swing the other way, the counter force pulling the pendulum the other way is by members who will ask for it to more heavily moderated, not just moderately moderated. What happens if the pendulum swings to far the other way?

Say a handful of serious members with no sense of humor wants to get rid of any member who has less of a serious side. They will belly ache to the mods until long standing members aren't serious all get the boot. It seems it will spill over from dealing with real trolls who really break the rules to members they don't like personally. That is why I'm not to crazy about Tore recommendation, and hope mods know who is who when it comes to trolling.

Goofle said in plug that 20% of the members should get infractions but don't... something like that. I wonder if that 20% isn't the few that make up 90% of the posts on the board and which 90% of that is non-music related. I hate to think any of those are members I like to plug with.

Trollheart · 05-31-2015, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

It is such a catch-all for all kind of behavior, from deliberate starting fights with hot topic threads to replying only with *.gifs to making sarcastic, snarky, stupid, silly, sassy, saucy, smart-alecky or smarty-pants comments.

.

Jesus man! Half of that stuff is what you do a lot of (and so do I) and it's kind of the lifeblood of the community here. If we were all super-serious and afraid to say anything for fear of being banned or infracted, there'd be little enjoyment here. To return to my office analogy (though tore does not like it I think it's valid) it would be like those offices where you can't even smile at a member of the opposite sex or ask them how their weekend was without being pulled up by HR! Sod that. I would not want to be part of any environment that promoted, encouraged or fostered that kind of atmosphere.

The Batlord · 05-31-2015, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Jesus man! Half of that stuff is what you do a lot of (and so do I) and it's kind of the lifeblood of the community here. If we were all super-serious and afraid to say anything for fear of being banned or infracted, there'd be little enjoyment here. To return to my office analogy (though tore does not like it I think it's valid) it would be like those offices where you can't even smile at a member of the opposite sex or ask them how their weekend was without being pulled up by HR! Sod that. I would not want to be part of any environment that promoted, encouraged or fostered that kind of atmosphere.

Key · 05-31-2015, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

So basically we should be quicker to drop the banhammer on longstanding members? That doesn't seem like it would make the place a more pleasant environment.

I have to agree. If this were the way things would work around here, lots of the regulars here would be banned, and the community would just diminish. Stricter moderation is not always a good thing for a forum.