Changes to Rule Enforcement

The Batlord · 05-30-2015, 06:11 AM

Not to be that guy, but I think I should get a little recognition for my brilliant gif usage.

Guybrush · 05-30-2015, 06:18 AM

Thanks for your honest feedback, Goofle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Cops don't know who you are. The mods do. How many speeding tickets do you think Officer Jackson has given out to his neighbor Leadfoot Joe?

Hence

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

remember that personal is not the same as important. Be consistent, predictable and act with integrity.

and

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I do think any job of rule enforcing requires an ability to personally distance oneself somewhat and not bring emotions into it.

We're not talking speeding tickets. We're talking infractions - which are temporary and don't really affect you until you've accumulated past some threshhold amount. If you get some, it's not really much of a punishment. If you get enough of them that it does affect you, that's appropriate.

I like a lot of you guys, but not to the point where I wouldn't give you an infraction. Perhaps I really am RoboCop?

Oriphiel · 05-30-2015, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

We're not talking speeding tickets. We're talking infractions - which are temporary and don't really affect you until you've accumulated past some threshhold amount. If you get some, it's not really much of a punishment. If you get enough of them that it does affect you, that's appropriate.

Your description of a speeding ticket is almost identical to the description of an infraction. So really, the analogy wasn't that bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I like a lot of you guys, but not to the point where I wouldn't give you an infraction. Perhaps I really am RoboCop?

You're a good guy, and everyone knows it. The Robocop thing is just a satire of the proposed system, not any one person in particular.

Guybrush · 05-30-2015, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

Your description of a speeding ticket is almost identical to the description of an infraction. So really, the analogy wasn't that bad.

I don't get it. A speeding ticket has consequences in that you have to pay it. An infraction times out on its own after 10 days or so. If it wasn't the one that put you over the magic amount, it functions more as a warning that getting more of them within that timespan can carry consequences. On it's own, it does very little.

That's why I'm proposing members need to change the way they think about punishment and infractions and more see it as a measure of how much freedom they have. You can get infractions - that's fine. Just be aware that you'll get tempbanned if you get too many too quickly.

Oriphiel · 05-30-2015, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I don't get it. A speeding ticket has consequences in that you have to pay it. An infraction times out on its own after 10 days or so. If it wasn't the one that put you over the magic amount, it functions more as a warning that getting more of them within that timespan can carry consequences.

An infraction has consequences in that you're basically on probation, and anything you do can send you over the limit. You reform your behavior to make extra sure that nothing you post can possibly be taken the wrong way. Just likes with a fine, if you have only one than it's a minor annoyance. But the more tickets and citations you get, the closer you get to having to take a driving class or having your license suspended (being temporarily banned). They seem pretty similar to me.

Guybrush · 05-30-2015, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

An infraction has consequences in that you're basically on probation, and anything you do can send you over the limit. You reform your behavior to make extra sure that nothing you post can possibly be taken the wrong way. Just likes with a fine, if you have only one than it's a minor annoyance. But the more tickets and citations you get, the closer you get to having to take a driving class or having your license suspended (being temporarily banned). They seem pretty similar to me.

Similar in that respect, perhaps. But if I get a speeding ticket, what I worry about is the amount of money that I have to pay. I mean, that's really the main thing about speeding tickets - they cost money - and this aspect is pretty much non-existent with infractions. 50 speeding tickets will cost you. 50 infractions won't necessarily cost you a thing. So, in practice, the two are quite different.

Edit :

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolverinewolfweiselpigeon

Tore, I think this system would benefit the community immensely, for what it's worth, but I don't foresee it being implemented.

Thanks WWWP

I believe in it, so I feel like I gotta try (again).

The Batlord · 05-30-2015, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I don't get it. A speeding ticket has consequences in that you have to pay it. An infraction times out on its own after 10 days or so. If it wasn't the one that put you over the magic amount, it functions more as a warning that getting more of them within that timespan can carry consequences. On it's own, it does very little.

That's why I'm proposing members need to change the way they think about punishment and infractions and more see it as a measure of how much freedom they have. You can get infractions - that's fine. Just be aware that you'll get tempbanned if you get too many too quickly.

Perhaps a regular course of drug therapy, or a relatively noninvasive lobotomy would help.

WWWP · 05-30-2015, 08:37 AM

Tore, I think this system would benefit the community immensely, for what it's worth, but I don't foresee it being implemented.

Guybrush · 05-30-2015, 03:26 PM

Erica gets it. Thank you so much for your support

**Janszoon** · 05-30-2015, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

Okay. I think there's a way to hand out custom infractions. I have one myself from Yac.

Either way, it's just a suggestion. If it's not practical in its current state, perhaps a change in some of the details would help.

Yes, you can do custom infractions. But having to do custom infractions which contradict the existing system every single time feels like it goes against the very premise of your proposal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

Possibly the short posts rule should be eliminated. It's not enforced today and so means little. You may be getting hung up on details and not seeing the bigger picture.

And yes, it does eliminate context in the most common situations. That's how it should be. You shouldn't have to treat every enforcement of a rule like it was uncharted territory and an excercise in judgment. Unusual situations should call for that and they're not going away.

Animosity would occur, but less so when people wrap their heads around this. Let's say I decide to insult someone. I know what the rules are, I know what the consequences should be, but I do it anyways. If you then infract me, I'm gonna think "fair cop". I know what I did, probably thought it was worth it and your response was predictable and already described to me in the rules.

Animosity today is generated because punishment is unpredictable and personal. My suggestion makes punishment predictable and unpersonal. Plus, getting an infraction is not the end of the world and people would still get away with things. It just puts a cap on how much of a rule breaker you can be before you disappear for a while.

My comments about enforcement of the short posts rule were meant as an example of the issues I see with your proposal. I actually think there are good reasons to keep that rule, but that's a side issue, my main point is simply that, like a lot of rules, it's very context dependent. The issue of context is not a minor thing, it's a fundamental point about the nature of rule enforcement which you and I disagree on. I think taking a one size fits all approach which disregards context actually leads to unfair rule enforcement and generates more animosity because people get upset about the thoughtlessness of the way the rule is being enforced. As others have pointed out, it also doesn't really make sense on a board this size because the mods, for better or worse, are also active members of the site, not dispassionate third parties as they might be on, say, the comments section of a major news outlet's website.

I think, by and large, people get upset when their hand gets slapped. So setting up a situation where mods are slapping hands more often is going to generate more animosity, not less. Plus, it's still going to require the kind of human judgement that you want to eliminate because mods will still have to decide what constitutes an insult, what constitutes trolling, etc. That situation seems like it will be more hassle, the end result of which will only be more headaches for everyone involved. Doesn't seem worth it at all.

On a side note, sorry it took me so long to respond, this week was my last week at my job so I was trying to squeeze a thoughtful response to your comments in between wrapping up projects, attending farewell events, and preparing for my new job.

05-30-2015, 03:26 PM	#9 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	Erica gets it. Thank you so much for your support __________________ Something Completely Different