Changes to Rule Enforcement

RoxyRollah · 06-02-2015, 06:43 AM

Its not just appropriate its fact.Buy a helmet.

**Yac** · 06-02-2015, 07:03 AM

I took my time responding to this, but here's my take on rules and rules enforcement.
As some of you probably know, I'm a lot more active on city-data.com/forum than here, here I only visit to help the mods out if there is need and to(though I have to say they are a great bunch that can deal with anything thrown at them).
At city-data, rules enforcement is strict. Very strict even. Infractions are very common, many folks spend sometimes months restricted - even though to get that kind of punishment they had to really work for it, it is harsh.
Musicbanter is.. well, anarchy. Mods are a lot more relaxed and I think this style of moderation fits this forum very well, certainly better than my very strict approach.
Having said that though, as with everything the best solution lies somewhere in the middle. Imo MB cold use just a pinch of rules, not too much as it's an unique ecosystemso to say that would be completely ruined if the changes were too big.
I won't name any specific members, but the biggest problem is member ego. There's a certain kind of people that at a specific point, once they feel safe enough, start acting like they are better. Start acting like they can do whatever the f*ck they want because hey, they've been here a while, people recognize them, they're allowed. Often the results are comical or at least within the boundaries of the usual forum banter, but sometimes it becomes so bad it ruins the experience for everybody. And this isn't just a senior member issue, that specific point in time I mentioned depends on the person.
Then there is the fact that the sole source of revenue for this site are google ads - and they are by far not as invasive as they can be. In fact, registered members either see very few or don't see them at all.For the forum to work the way it does, without any banners, popups and all that crap, it needs to maintain some standards.
So here's my take on this: I don't think a slightly stricter approach to rules would hurt. It wouldn't muzzle the forum at all. In fact I'm sure many folks would find it refreshing that they can actually discuss some topics in detail without having to deal with "funny" comments from members that couldn't care less and only came into the thread to mock it. Rules need to be applied to everybody equally, regardless whether he or she has 3 or 3000 posts, regardless who they are friends with. Additionally repeated rules violations should be treated seriously. We're all humans, we all make mistakes. We all sometimes get carried away. But when someone is hijacking a thread with his drivel again and again... maybe he should enjoy a week away from the forum. If he or she won't listen to reason, only a stronger punishment can potentially convince him to start acting properly.
Having said all that, It's all up to the mods and the community. I am sure that a compromise can be reached that will satisfy all but the most fringe anarchists/authoritarians

Yac.

Guybrush · 06-02-2015, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

longstanding members, for want of a better phrase, walking out en masse. That should not be seen as a threat, but a hard reality.

Personally, I don't attribute much consideration to such threats. I find it immature to threaten a suggestion like this to silence and besides, it is just the last in a line of argument where the whole basis relies on extreme exaggeration of the harshness of the proposed system. Words and terms like police state, nazi state and witch hunt have been used. Noone wants this. It's not what I or anyone else who supports this are envisioning. The whole assumption that that's what this suggestion would lead to is wrong and fallacious.

My last proposition suggests more relaxed rules in the lounge. That would more or less mean that lounge discussions would be as they are today, but threads outside of the lounge will be protected from bickering and derailment (among other things). Did you consider this suggestion?

I think there are ways to make this work, but you need to take the discussion a little more serious. How would you make it work? What is your suggested compromise? That's what I would like to know. So how about you stop the threats, stop the cries and instead try to be a little constructive and perhaps even help find solutions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

You seem to be forgetting that, while I may be here a lot, I am not always at my keyboard. If I come back a few hours (or a day; remember I'm in Ireland and some of these comments are posted on US time) and see relevant posts to me I WILL respond to them. That is NOT pulling the thread off-topic, that is merely reponding to a semi-topic already in process, whether it has run out or not. If I don't respond, don't I look ignorant and impolite, some of the very things you're trying to tackle?

If your post has nothing to do with the topic of the thread, it is off-topic. You were discussing Soulflower's character, not my suggestion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Bolded: I would also hope, if this is forced through (which I pray to all Batty's Norse gods it is not) that new mods would NOT be recruited solely on the basis of their support of this proposal/system. Cos I think they might be, and that would be a mistake. A real police state would then be in effect. I can think of several people I would never want to be mods.

If you need people for a job, you get people who can do that job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Bolded: But would you come back if this system is defeated? Or are you only offering to come back to essentially run the new state? And let me ask you this: if the proposal is defeated, will you accept that or will you forever be making cryptic or not-so-veiled references to how things could have been if only your system had been implemented?

I am generally a busy person and will be more so in the future, and so no - I am not particularly interested in running a "new state" here. I like Musicbanter, but I don't like the direction in which I think it's headed and would like to offer my help in changing the direction of the ship so to speak. When it's on the right track with a captain and a crew to get it there, I'd like to step off .. In other words become a normal member again and get on with the rest of my life.

edit :

To Yac, I agree

RoxyRollah · 06-02-2015, 07:10 AM

Can we put this shit to a vote?

Machine · 06-02-2015, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoxyRollah

Can we put this shit to a vote?

I agree I think that's really the best way to settle this.

RoxyRollah · 06-02-2015, 07:40 AM

Your agreeing with me makes me happy... bye.

Guybrush · 06-02-2015, 07:52 AM

I think it's ultimately up to the people in charge to decide whether they want this or not (MB is, ultimately, not a democracy), but the people in charge would probably benefit from knowing what the general members think

I can write up a poll thread.

RoxyRollah · 06-02-2015, 08:02 AM

so by that theory, your proposal means diddly.

Also didn't Yac just say it was up to mods and the community?

And if that is true, then I saw Freebase, and Janszy tell you to pound salt in a nice way.

Im not opposed to you making in a poll...

Guybrush · 06-02-2015, 08:18 AM

A poll has been created : http://www.musicbanter.com/announcem...forcement.html

edit :

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoxyRollah

Also didn't Yac just say it was up to mods and the community?

To Yac and others who support this motion; if you want to see this change happen, make sure it happens now. There will likely never be a better opportunity. The current and long-lasting state of affairs is driving people who want better behaved forums away from the site and so if the current environment is allowed to continue, support for this would only dwindle in the future.

Strike while the iron is hot.

VEGANGELICA · 06-02-2015, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yac

[...] So here's my take on this: I don't think a slightly stricter approach to rules would hurt. It wouldn't muzzle the forum at all. In fact I'm sure many folks would find it refreshing that they can actually discuss some topics in detail without having to deal with "funny" comments from members that couldn't care less and only came into the thread to mock it. Rules need to be applied to everybody equally, regardless whether he or she has 3 or 3000 posts, regardless who they are friends with. Additionally repeated rules violations should be treated seriously. We're all humans, we all make mistakes. We all sometimes get carried away. But when someone is hijacking a thread with his drivel again and again... maybe he should enjoy a week away from the forum. If he or she won't listen to reason, only a stronger punishment can potentially convince him to start acting properly. [...]

Yac.

Thank you, Yac, for offering your opinion that MB would benefit from a more consistent, slightly stricter approach to rule enforcement, one that would still allow people to enjoy off-topic banter and sharing honest opinions about each other, but would put a firmer limit on how much off-topic posting and bickering is allowed.

I feel that you, especially with your perspective as a super moderator, give very good reasons for changing rule enforcement at MB so that the limits are clearer and enforcement more consistent. I agree with you.

And thank you, Tore, and also a thank you to the moderators, for agreeing to create a poll so that we can vote on what we feel is best for MB after reading about and discussing the issue:

http://www.musicbanter.com/announcem...ml#post1597333

I agree with you, Tore, when you write: "The current and long-lasting state of affairs is driving people who want better behaved forums away from the site and so if the current environment is allowed to continue, support for this [proposed change in rule enforcement] would only dwindle in the future."

06-02-2015, 07:52 AM	#277 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	I think it's ultimately up to the people in charge to decide whether they want this or not (MB is, ultimately, not a democracy), but the people in charge would probably benefit from knowing what the general members think I can write up a poll thread. __________________ Something Completely Different

06-02-2015, 07:03 AM	#272 (permalink)
Yac Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: It's a secret too. Posts: 1,363	I took my time responding to this, but here's my take on rules and rules enforcement. As some of you probably know, I'm a lot more active on city-data.com/forum than here, here I only visit to help the mods out if there is need and to(though I have to say they are a great bunch that can deal with anything thrown at them). At city-data, rules enforcement is strict. Very strict even. Infractions are very common, many folks spend sometimes months restricted - even though to get that kind of punishment they had to really work for it, it is harsh. Musicbanter is.. well, anarchy. Mods are a lot more relaxed and I think this style of moderation fits this forum very well, certainly better than my very strict approach. Having said that though, as with everything the best solution lies somewhere in the middle. Imo MB cold use just a pinch of rules, not too much as it's an unique ecosystemso to say that would be completely ruined if the changes were too big. I won't name any specific members, but the biggest problem is member ego. There's a certain kind of people that at a specific point, once they feel safe enough, start acting like they are better. Start acting like they can do whatever the f*ck they want because hey, they've been here a while, people recognize them, they're allowed. Often the results are comical or at least within the boundaries of the usual forum banter, but sometimes it becomes so bad it ruins the experience for everybody. And this isn't just a senior member issue, that specific point in time I mentioned depends on the person. Then there is the fact that the sole source of revenue for this site are google ads - and they are by far not as invasive as they can be. In fact, registered members either see very few or don't see them at all.For the forum to work the way it does, without any banners, popups and all that crap, it needs to maintain some standards. So here's my take on this: I don't think a slightly stricter approach to rules would hurt. It wouldn't muzzle the forum at all. In fact I'm sure many folks would find it refreshing that they can actually discuss some topics in detail without having to deal with "funny" comments from members that couldn't care less and only came into the thread to mock it. Rules need to be applied to everybody equally, regardless whether he or she has 3 or 3000 posts, regardless who they are friends with. Additionally repeated rules violations should be treated seriously. We're all humans, we all make mistakes. We all sometimes get carried away. But when someone is hijacking a thread with his drivel again and again... maybe he should enjoy a week away from the forum. If he or she won't listen to reason, only a stronger punishment can potentially convince him to start acting properly. Having said all that, It's all up to the mods and the community. I am sure that a compromise can be reached that will satisfy all but the most fringe anarchists/authoritarians Yac.