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[Lucem Ferre]

It's not poetic.

See, it literally sinks down to attacking somebody personally because you lack comprehension.

And I could say that you just don't like acknowledging how much control you actually do have over your situation because it makes you partially accountable for your own misery and it's easier to tell yourself you don't have any true meaningful power.

For me it's honestly less comforting because I can't just blame everything but myself for my situation and puts the responsibility on me to try and influence an outcome in my best interest.

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Meaningless.

It's okay to be confused. What I meant was that being able to describe a process doesn't mean that it was dictated.

Then you're agreeing with me that "choice" is a poetic description of reaction to stimuli.

Yep. Just like how reaction to stimuli is a clinical description of the word "choice." I've never disagreed with the idea that reaction to stimuli is what constitutes consciousness, I just think that being able to describe something isn't evidence against its existence—quite the opposite really.

I don't really ride for the phrase free will since it's based in the religious condemnation of man so no argument there. The word consciousness works just as well.

Yeah you're literally describing a flowery poetic description of just not having a gun to your head when making decisions. What you're describing still relies on scientific equations deciding your responses. You're just desperate for a more magical reality where you aren't a biological robot.

Yeah that's not free will unless free will is a poetic flourish that has no real world meaning. You keep describing exactly what I'm talking about but insist on interpreting it in a poetic way that has no real world meaning because it would make you feel bad.

You're the only one who introduced magic here. Maybe looking into what the words consciousness, choice, etc mean would be more useful than displacing them from their definitions but I'll let you take whatever approach you prefer. Pop scientists have made bank on your take.

[The Batlord]

Yeah you're still just obsessing over your own agency because that's what everyone obsesses over their own life all the time no matter who you are. It's terrifying to accept but you still feel like a human being and it it still allows for the narcissism of centering your worldview around you and your "choices". It's just the center of human consciousness. Except it's also ****.

The simplest ****. But you have no intention seeing past it so I'm just talking to a wall.

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by Frownland

It's okay to be confused. What I meant was that being able to describe a process doesn't mean that it was dictated.



Yep. Just like how reaction to stimuli is a clinical description of the word "choice." I've never disagreed with the idea that reaction to stimuli is what constitutes consciousness, I just think that being able to describe something isn't evidence against its existence—quite the opposite really.

I don't really ride for the phrase free will since it's based in religious hegemony so no argument there. The word consciousness works just as well.



You're the only one who introduced magic here. Maybe looking into what the words consciousness, choice, etc mean would be more useful than displacing them from their definitions but I'll let you take whatever approach you prefer. Pop scientists have made bank on your take.

If you were really that evolved then you'd just agree that free will was indeed just a nonsense descriptor of people feeling like they have choice. Your resistance to the idea of free will being an illusion paints you as a smart but still delusional moron who's searching for philosophical comfort you can use to paint what you want

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by The Batlord

If you were really that evolved then you'd just agree that free will was indeed just a nonsense descriptor of people feeling like they have choice. Your resistance to the idea of free will being an illusion paints you as a smart but still delusional moron who's searching for philosophical comfort you can use to paint what you want

I don't use the phrase free will and view choice and consciousness as terms to describe aspects of reaction to stimuli. You're just mad that language exists lmao.

[Lucem Ferre]

Like, literally, I'm giving an actual argument and you're just talking **** with no real argument.

"That sounds like magic"

So does existing in general. It's not magic, it's purely biological.

"You just want to believe it to feel self important and flowery and poetic."

I don't, arm chair psychologist. It doesn't sound flowery or poetic to me because I understand it. You can argue that thinking things are predetermined and that you were born to flip burgers sounds magical, poetic and self important too.

But notice how that's not an actual argument for or against free will and is just a deflection?

[Frownland]

Cold doesn't exist, it's actually the transfer of heat making the other object warmer, in turn making you less warm. You're just obsessed with the concept of cold because you want to describe a sensation that you're experiencing in order to communicate an idea relating to it with someone else by way of sounds and/or symbols. If you weren't such a self-obsessed moron, you would just say that your body temperature has exceeded the temperature of the air around you instead of some dumbass poetic **** like "it's cold".

[Lucem Ferre]

Music doesn't exist. It's just an amalgamation of sounds that tend to activate your endorphins in a way that you like. You just like the idea of "music" because it's flowery and poetic.

[The Batlord]

Originally Posted by Frownland

I don't use the phrase free will and view choice and consciousness as terms to describe aspects of reaction to stimuli. You're just mad that language exists lmao.

Well then what are you describing? You're doing a whole lot of bull**** to justify not believing in predestination while also describing.believing in predestination.

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

Like, literally, I'm giving an actual argument and you're just talking **** with no real argument.

"That sounds like magic"

So does existing in general. It's not magic, it's purely biological.

"You just want to believe it to feel self important and flowery and poetic."

I don't, arm chair psychologist. It doesn't sound flowery or poetic to me because I understand it. You can argue that thinking things are predetermined and that you were born to flip burgers sounds magical, poetic and self important too.

But notice how that's not an actual argument for or against free will and is just a deflection?

If you.think that what I'm describing is just describing what is likely to occur because my life says I'm most likely to live a life like what I've already lived then you're a moron. You're just describing being a moron.

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Well then what are you describing? You're doing a whole lot of bull**** to justify not believing in predestination while also describing.believing in predestination.

Choice is the process of an individual determining action and consciousness is awareness of existence on some level. Neither of those contradict the laws of thermodynamics (I prefer that to the religious "predestination").

If those words mean something different to you then clarify how you define them.