Missing Posters Bulletin Board

[Exo]

Originally Posted by Man like Monkey

Police doing their jobs you mean. An arrest is going to happen if the person being stopped is either doing something wrong (drug possession/warrant for their arrest) or acting the twat with the police (giving them cheek, resisting arrest and so on). In either case, so what?

To be fair, there is a lot of police corruption going on right now over here. It isn't the norm but it certainly isn't rare. The media is highlighting every single instance of police brutality and are ignoring the great things police do but it doesn't mean that the brutality should be taken lightly. A lot of f*cked up sh*t has happened in the last two years.

[Janszoon]

Originally Posted by Exo

To be fair, there is a lot of police corruption going on right now over here. It isn't the norm but it certainly isn't rare. The media is highlighting every single instance of police brutality and are ignoring the great things police do but it doesn't mean that the brutality should be taken lightly. A lot of f*cked up sh*t has happened in the last two years.

It's also worth pointing out that there's been a long history of police brutality in this country, it's been highlighted a lot more recently because of the fact that so much more of it is being caught on video.

[WWWP]

Originally Posted by Exo

A lot of f*cked up sh*t has happened in the last four hundred years.

Ftfy

[Exo]

Well, yeah, that's true also.

[Cuthbert]

Originally Posted by djchameleon

That's the thing, they hide under that claim that you supposedly match the description of a suspect but it's not the case.

It's unlikely to be the case every single time, I'm certain I've been stopped because I look like other people who've been up to no good with no specific, individual suspect in mind but I don't really care. I can understand why in an area where car theft, vandalism, arson etc is rife, committed by young, white males in their teens wearing sports clothing, that someone in the age group and wearing those clothes would be stopped.

I have an issue with the antisocial little shits committing these crimes but not the police for trying to crack down on it.

Also you think stop and frisking people to find nothing is not the same as being harassed?

No it's not harassment.

They are doing their jobs poorly. This method is highly ineffective and you just end up harassing more people than you actually get arrests.

It's not harassment and I'd need to see stats showing the number of searches and the number of arrests based off of those. If they stop 100 people and take two guns off the streets then that's decent work imo.

Then they wonder why people in the community don't want to cooperate when they are trying to find witnesses for crimes.

Plenty of reasons why people wouldn't cooperate.

You might as well just put up cameras and use those to help you do your job.

You can do both. A camera isn't going to work for every crime. For example if you are trying to crack down on knife crime, if somebody is carrying a knife in their pocket, how is a CCTV camera going to pick that up before they've stabbed somebody?

Stop & search would though

When the only time people see police is to harass and stop them they aren't going to want to cooperate with you. When you treat the people that you are supposed to protect like animals consistently that's what happens.

"oh but maybe they should stop acting like animals."
It is the mindset when you blanket the people in one area based off of your experience and then start treating every single person you see the same way is where the issue comes into play.

It's not harassment, we are talking about stopping and searching people.

Originally Posted by Exo

To be fair, there is a lot of police corruption going on right now over here. It isn't the norm but it certainly isn't rare. The media is highlighting every single instance of police brutality and are ignoring the great things police do but it doesn't mean that the brutality should be taken lightly. A lot of f*cked up sh*t has happened in the last two years.

I accept corruption is wrong. Stopping and searching is fine.

[Exo]

Originally Posted by Man like Monkey

I accept corruption is wrong. Stopping and searching is fine.

You see, it's actually not fine. 400 years ago when we told your royal family to f*ck off we decided to make up some new rules...

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Probable cause must be in place for a stop and search to be "fine". Fact of the matter is a lot of people are being searched with no probable cause and a good number of them have reason to believe it's because of the color of their skin. Racism is a thing and if you think a person who took classes for six months to become a police officer is just going to drop those core racial beliefs just because he has a job to do now, then you're very naive. If probable cause is presented, then yes, stopping and searching is warranted, but this isn't always the case and it's becoming more common that there isn't any cause.

[Trollheart]

Originally Posted by djchameleon

I'm talking about her currently being voiceless because she is banned and can't respond.

She was eventually banned due to her behaviour, and you can't say she wasn't given enough warnings and chances. You're acting as if we all ganged up on her. We didn't. Although it seems impossible for one person to gang up on a number of others, this is essentially what she did. As soon as you supported, even tacitly, what someone else was saying that was contrary to what she believed or thought, she lumped you in with them as being out to get her. She was basically paranoid, and from my dealings with her, came across as quite nasty and intractable.

She isn't the exception. Roxy is technically the other one this same thing applied to. Also, it does happen all the time as far as someone disagreeing with another's opinion. Well more so in the current events section. It happens on both sides. I've even done it myself but I don't completely write the person off and try to keep the discussion going back and forth. When you get heated talking politics it happens. I've seen it with Chula Vs Frownland, well Chula vs. Everyone when they decide to gang up on him for his blind loyalty to Hillary.

I knew you'd bring up Roxy. She wasn't ganged up on; she had a lot going on yet kept posting here in what was perhaps not the best frame of mind, instead of standing back and taking a breath. I love her, but sometimes she needed to really think about what was important and not give people here the kind of responses she was, which didn't help her. Some people were probably unnecessarily mean to her, but then, as someone pointed out, we're all ****s here anyway.

If you know you aren't something that someone says you are. Being upset isn't going to change the persons thoughts about you even if it's a lie. I've been on the opposite side of this many times. You have to just accept that, that's what the other person thinks of you and decides to go running off at the mouth and telling others about you. You don't have to be a robot but it's a good life lesson to learn to control your reaction to what others say because you know the truth and you can't change their perception of you.

I'm sorry, but this is the worst bull**** I have ever read from you. So basically you're annoyed with Mordor's "get over it" comment and yet you here are advising the same thing? No way man. If someone accuses me of being something I'm not, I'll fight to prove it's not the case. Not only have you to make it clear to that person you are not what they say you are, you have to think of how that reflects throughout the forum. Silence is taken as admission, so if I'm accused by god I'll stand up and make my case. Otherwise what's the point? Keep your head down and let people say allsorts?

Also, if this is your philosophy then why is it bothering you that we're talking about SF are we are? If it's not true, or you believe it not to be true, to use your own words, what does it matter?

If she wasn't clarifying or explaining then why did you keep responding to her? Why go on for pages back and forth with her then? She would bring up valid points besides just those things you said. I know because I have gotten into my share of arguments with her as well. She is just opinionated like I am. I have quoted numerous posts of hers and gone back and forth. I was able to keep it civil without going off the handle and insulting her. At least Neo was nice enough to keep his thoughts about her civil but since she isn't around to defend herself it's open season and everyone and their mother thinks it's okay to keep throwing dirt on her name.

I wanted simple clarification of a point, as I recall a pretty unimportant point, but she wouldn't oblige, and I was genuinely surprised as to why she would not. I was simply debating, then she turned me into a racist. I got better.

Oh is that why we can count the number of female posters that are currently active/semi active on one hand? Because we are so forum friendly to females.

Keep dreaming man.

No, females rarely frequent these kinds of sites because they have better things to do, are interested in other things or have lives. It has nothing to do with being bullied by males.

[Frownland]

Originally Posted by Man like Monkey

.
We're not talking about being harassed, we're talking about being stopped. It's perfectly fine to stop you if you match the description of a suspect.

*squints*

Being assumed to be a criminal and having that break up your schedule is indeed harassment and is actually unconstitutional. Plus, stop and frisk did not necessarily relate to any crimes that the police are investigating and looking for a suspect (they wouldn't need stop and frisk for a possible suspect, that would be probable cause), it was largely implemented as a preemptive law enforcement.

[Frownland]

Exo beating me to the punch with that mod hive mind.

[Cuthbert]

Originally Posted by Exo

You see, it's actually not fine. 400 years ago when we told your royal family to f*ck off we decided to make up some new rules...

Probable cause must be in place for a stop and search to be "fine". Fact of the matter is a lot of people are being searched with no probable cause and a good number of them have reason to believe it's because of the color of their skin.

It could be for lots of reasons.

Racism is a thing and if you think a person who took classes for six months to become a police officer is just going to drop those core racial beliefs just because he has a job to do now, then you're very naive.

I don't think I've suggested that there aren't any racist police officers whatsoever.

If probable cause is presented, then yes, stopping and searching is warranted, but this isn't always the case and it's becoming more common that there isn't any cause.

Can you post the legal definition of probable cause for the US please.