The Constructive Ideas Thread

[VEGANGELICA]

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

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2 - To say someone is trolling, you are not throwing out some internet buzzword nobody understands or can reconcile with its meaning - It's not like accusing someone of being "A brainwashed cryptofascist apologist", where people might have no idea what that is or means. To say someone is trolling is a shorthand for saying one very simple thing:

"I believe that you are insincere in this debate, and out to cause trouble by adopting a stance calculated to offend others".

(I'll give everyone exactly one guess to think of a member who does that ABSOLUTELY ALL THE DAMNED TIME.)

To try and put a ban on people taking that position is to completely doom ourselves to a forum where nobody can be accused of seeking to cause trouble. Where the only method of even having that position taken into account, is the report button, so that the mod team can assume all authority over whether the user fits the bill of "troll".

GB, you make many points and I can tell how passionate you are about this issue of the manner in which MB mods and the community handle members viewed by some or even a majority of people here as disruptive.

I have read your and others' posts in response to mine, but I want to focus on your idea that I feel is the best way to prevent rising escalation among members at MB when some feel another is trolling or breaking an MB rule: When members believe someone is trolling, rather than accuse that person in the thread, use the report button. The mods can then make the decision.

^ This is in line with our community rule: "If you feel that someone is in violation of the forum rules and you wish to report it please use the "report this" located below each post."

About my wishing mods to be "nice" while moderating:

Mods can be effective and act quickly while also being polite, as they often are. The brutality that you relished with RT isn't necessary for a site to function and in my mind is not desirable because many people don't want to participate in a community where brutality is used by those who have power.

I'm very thankful to the mods here whenever they politely and quickly handle problems. I don't always agree with their decisions, and so I'm also thankful that they consider the opinions of regular members, which they do even though the rules clearly state that "the staff reserve the right to take any actions we deem appropriate to ensure these forums are not disrupted or abused in any way, including removal of content and user bans."

About how to handle the situation when members feel someone is trolling:

I know you and others feel very passionately that sopsych is trolling. And yet I know with 100% certainty that he is not trolling: he is well-intentioned. However, his opinions about the quality of music posts are not held by many people here, except perhaps Duga.

The important point, I feel, is that people should be able to express opinions about subject matter, even when their opinions aren't popular, without risking a ban. For example, I believe that feeling fully satisfied with the music discussion here isn't or shouldn't be a requirement for being part of this community.

I understand how some members can get tired of feeling that an individual is often critical of discussions they value; when that happens, I recommend they use the ignore button so that people can more easily co-exist here on MB. I'd rather see many people here with a variety of controversial opinions rather than a few people who all agree.

Originally Posted by Burning Down

I think that members who feel the need to insult or do name calling really need to take a step back and learn some discipline. It's impossible for anyone here to predict when somebody is going to make an offensive remark in order to be able to prevent it from actually happening. If they do happen, they are swiftly dealt with as Urban stated. There is that gray area between complete censorship of negative opinions and freedom to express those opinions, and yes, this is what members tend to exploit, through baiting and instigation of drama starting with insulting remarks.

Again, it really comes down to self-discipline on the part of every member here.

Thanks for your reply, Burning Down. I agree with your wish to find a middle ground between complete censorship and allowing people at the site to express negative opinions.

My suggestion is for mods to tell members they need to follow the MB rule: "If you feel that someone is in violation of the forum rules and you wish to report it please use the "report this" located below each post."

^ I *think* this would cut down on name calling and abusive treatment among members. You might get a lot more posts reported, but at least then threads wouldn't end up with members bashing each other or, worse, ganging up on one member in post after post when they believe he has broken rules or they are of the opinion that the person is a jerk.