The Constructive Ideas Thread

[Black Francis]

@GB

i wasn't trying to point fingers at you GB i think this goes beyond just you i was referring more to the mindset of this community when it comes to creating drama and looking for reasons to argue
i don't like how it becomes the focus of everything and most of the time nothing gets resolved, sure they ban a few ppl and use them as scapegoats but even after they get banned the problem still lingers on..

*sigh* i realise that no matter what i say it won't change anything so i'll stop indulging the drama myself just know i wasn't blaming you alone ok GB? im really in no position to blame anyone i was just commenting on all the arguing ive been seeing lately

[GuitarBizarre]

Originally Posted by Black Francis

@GB

i wasn't trying to point fingers at you GB i think this goes beyond just you i was referring more to the mindset of this community when it comes to creating drama and looking for reasons to argue
i don't like how it becomes the focus of everything and most of the time nothing gets resolved, sure they ban a few ppl and use them as scapegoats but even after they get banned the problem still lingers on..

*sigh* i realise that no matter what i say it won't change anything so i'll stop indulging the drama myself just know i wasn't blaming you alone ok GB? im really in no position to blame anyone i was just commenting on all the arguing ive been seeing lately

Nobody is creating drama. Drama is not heated debate or argument. Drama is not disagreement, and arguments or conflict are not bad things the mod team should be seeking to eradicate.

I think you and Vegangelica fail to understand that. You just don't seem to understand that an argument is not a bad thing and a heated argument isn't either.

The bad thing is when an argument grows to the scale or proportion that it causes problems in terms of actually achieving a resolution for the question at the heart of it.

Forcing people to be nicer will not solve that problem, it will just enforce a false state of hyper-civility which will further obfuscate any grey areas that our extant trolls are currently exploiting. As I explained before - to take that approach is, without a shadow of a doubt, only going to benefit the trolls themselves, as anyone who they succeed in annoying, will be rendered unable to voice that without themselves becoming the bad guy.

If that comes to pass, its nothing but a meal ticket for trolls. You'd just give them a weapon -

Enact any rules like that, and all a troll says is "Speak out against me, I dare you. I can infuriate you forever and as long as I'm grey area enough about it, I'm in no danger, but you speak up and I'll get you banned for being mean to me! I can cry to the mods about how you're attempting to dismiss and invalidate my opinion using that slur against me! HA! I'M UNTOUCHABLE!"

[Trollheart]

@GB: totally agree. It makes no sense whatever to muzzle ninety-nine percent of the population of MB and leave the other one percent free to bark, growl, piss on legs, crap on the ground and basically do everything and anything they want to. Treating trolls (other than me: I'm a good troll!) nicely will only result in their realising they can get away with more and more and eventually anything. This kind of bleeding heart utopian liberalism is fine in theory but doesn't work, not in the real world and not in the online world.

Trolls --- and be damned those who say I shouldn't use that word, because after all, call a spade a spade --- should have three choices if they want to disrupt a forum, thread, discussion or whatever.

1. Do that anyway but know there will be consequences. They will be swift, they will be final and they will not be nice.

2. Tone down what they're doing and try to act like responsible netizens

3. Get the hell out of town before the posse goes after them.

To expand on and use that loose metaphor in the final choice, what sort of sheriff sees a suspicious drifter come into town, shoot up the place, raise hell and upset everyone and when the angry townspeople come to him to ask what he's gonna do says "Now folks, these fellas just need some good ol' love an' understandin'! We can't be a-tramplin' on their rights y'see, no sir! Gotta live and let live. Why don't y'all just go on home? The boy don't mean no harm: he's just blowin' off steam. He'll stop, sooner or later. Maybe..."

Yeah. How long would that sheriff last in that town before someone took the law into their own hands? I'm not advocating a lynch mob or anything, but you have to clamp down hard on these people, because even after they've been warned, told they're disrupting things, had their points taken on board, agreed with in some cases (still doesn't placate some people --- whaddya mean, you're AGREEING with me? I take offence at that!) or refuted, they continue as they are, knowing or thinking they can't or won't be dealt with. And we need to show them they can and will.

NO to namby-pamby hand-holding psychobabble rehabilitation, YES to street justice! Okay then, just actual justice. It's not fair the larger percentage of the population has to suffer these idiots (yeah, sue me) who make all of our lives miserable; that's not what we come here for, is it?

Say it with me, brothers and sisters! We want our forum back!

[Neapolitan]

Originally Posted by Trollheart

@GB: totally agree. It makes no sense whatever to muzzle ninety-nine percent of the population of MB and leave the other one percent free to bark, growl, piss on legs, crap on the ground and basically do everything and anything they want to. Treating trolls (other than me: I'm a good troll!) nicely will only result in their realising they can get away with more and more and eventually anything. This kind of bleeding heart utopian liberalism is fine in theory but doesn't work, not in the real world and not in the online world.

Trolls --- and be damned those who say I shouldn't use that word, because after all, call a spade a spade --- should have three choices if they want to disrupt a forum, thread, discussion or whatever.

1. Do that anyway but know there will be consequences. They will be swift, they will be final and they will not be nice.

2. Tone down what they're doing and try to act like responsible netizens

3. Get the hell out of town before the posse goes after them.

To expand on and use that loose metaphor in the final choice, what sort of sheriff sees a suspicious drifter come into town, shoot up the place, raise hell and upset everyone and when the angry townspeople come to him to ask what he's gonna do says "Now folks, these fellas just need some good ol' love an' understandin'! We can't be a-tramplin' on their rights y'see, no sir! Gotta live and let live. Why don't y'all just go on home? The boy don't mean no harm: he's just blowin' off steam. He'll stop, sooner or later. Maybe..."

Yeah. How long would that sheriff last in that town before someone took the law into their own hands? I'm not advocating a lynch mob or anything, but you have to clamp down hard on these people, because even after they've been warned, told they're disrupting things, had their points taken on board, agreed with in some cases (still doesn't placate some people --- whaddya mean, you're AGREEING with me? I take offence at that!) or refuted, they continue as they are, knowing or thinking they can't or won't be dealt with. And we need to show them they can and will.

NO to namby-pamby hand-holding psychobabble rehabilitation, YES to street justice! Okay then, just actual justice. It's not fair the larger percentage of the population has to suffer these idiots (yeah, sue me) who make all of our lives miserable; that's not what we come here for, is it?

Say it with me, brothers and sisters! We want our forum back!

I don't think it cool to go after members by publicly calling for them being banned, because 1) if this site is import to another member I can't fathom wanting to take that away from them, and 2) if a person is that bad, then I think it would be better just to write a letter to a mod & present your case, and let the mods decide. I think a third party would most likely be less invested emotionally to the problem at hand and make a fair decision for both parties involved. We should to appeal to reason, just in case it's not that they're trolling but have a different opinions, or if there is a personality clash.

[Trollheart]

Where did you get that from? All I'm saying is mods should make it clear that no crap will be taken if a member tries to push it with trolling. They'll be dealt with, swiftly, by whatever means the mod(s) feel(s) appropriate.

I'm saying no more giving chance after chance and empty threats that are laughed at by those who have no intention of contributing constructively to threads or discussions and are only here to upset things. You need to know, you step out of line you're gonna get shot down.

That can hardly be deemed too extreme can it? Or am I just getting too old?

[djchameleon]

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

I don't think it cool to go after members by publicly calling for them being banned, because 1) if this site is import to another member I can't fathom wanting to take that away from them, and 2) if a person is that bad, then I think it would be better just to write a letter to a mod & present your case, and let the mods decide. I think a third party would most likely be less invested emotionally to the problem at hand and make a fair decision for both parties involved. We should to appeal to reason, just in case it's not that they're trolling but have a different opinions, or if there is a personality clash.

First I took what he said as an elaborate joke but he could be serious. hmmm.

[Paedantic Basterd]

People should be penalized for responding to people who are clearly trolling. How about that solution? Because that is half of the problem.

[hip hop bunny hop]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

People should be penalized for responding to people who are clearly trolling. How about that solution? Because that is half of the problem.

I don't think it's possible to get rid of trolling on a board about music. Such a board will attract people with bizarre ideas, and as such rustling jimmies is inevitable.

[Paedantic Basterd]

Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop

I don't think it's possible to get rid of trolling on a board about music. Such a board will attract people with bizarre ideas, and as such rustling jimmies is inevitable.

Naturally it can't be prevented, but I think it can be mitigated by controlling how much attention, importance, and validation we give to trolls, because that's what they come for, and we give them every ounce of reinforcement.

And if people can't control their own behaviour, that's what moderators are for.

[djchameleon]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

People should be penalized for responding to people who are clearly trolling. How about that solution? Because that is half of the problem.

that's the thing, it's a bit subjective. Some people may see it as clearly trolling and some one will come along and not even realize that the person is trolling but you want to slap the wrist of the person that comes along and unknowingly responses to the person that's clearly trolling?