We've got a major problem...

djchameleon · 08-16-2013, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astronomer

Like tore said, people take offense way too easily and some members seem to almost find any excuse to reply to a post with hostility and defense.

such a trap but I will respond to it anyways because the other side of the coin is being misrepresented.

Why do you two feel like you are allowed to tell others how they should feel and what they should or shouldn't be offended by just because you aren't offended by something?

Astronomer · 08-16-2013, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djchameleon

such a trap but I will respond to it anyways because the other side of the coin is being misrepresented.

Why do you two feel like you are allowed to tell others how they should feel and what they should or shouldn't be offended by just because you aren't offended by something?

Not at all, I just think it sucks that people are upset and angered so easily. For their own sake, I think they would benefit from not taking some posts as seriously as they do to save the drama. I'm not one for telling them how to feel, but more letting them know that it's doubtful that any members here mean to attack anyone so they don't need to react so defensively and get so offended/upset at various "issues" so to speak. More so reassuring them that the members here are not malicious and attacking of anyone so there is no need to get worked up!

I didn't really want to get involved but I guess I have now, just goes to show that people take things way too seriously and react angrily when they respond to things with comments like "I give up, **** it" (Sorry Janszoon, I didn't mean to offend you in any way at all but obviously my post had you react in this manner

The intentions of my post were not malicious or attacking in any way, in fact quite the opposite, yet it still prompts people to respond so defensively which makes me sad.)

I just hate that people are not happy with the situation and react so angrily/negatively/defensively to posts that shouldn't really be taken as offensive in any way. I'll just leave now, I hate drama!

**Janszoon** · 08-16-2013, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astronomer

I didn't really want to get involved but I guess I have now, just goes to show that people take things way too seriously and react angrily when they respond to things with comments like "I give up, **** it" (Sorry Janszoon, I didn't mean to offend you in any way at all but obviously my post had you react in this manner

The intentions of my post were not malicious or attacking in any way, in fact quite the opposite, yet it still prompts people to respond so defensively which makes me sad.)

I just hate that people are not happy with the situation and react so angrily/negatively/defensively to posts that shouldn't really be taken as offensive in any way. I'll just leave now, I hate drama!

Here's the thing about being a mod: when you are one you don't get the privilege of just ignoring forum drama. It's actually part of your responsibilities to respond to it in some way if it's getting out of hand. So you can imagine the frustration that comes with the reality that, when you try to deal with it in one way or another, no matter what you do, someone is going to be on your case about it. It's absolutely the shittiest part of being a mod. And even shittier still is when someone you like and respect jumps on you about a decision you've made to try and keep the peace. That's the point where you want to just throw up your hands and say, "Fuck it. Why the hell am I volunteering for this?"

Guybrush · 08-17-2013, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astronomer

That's fair enough Janszoon, I understand the position you were put in and why you moved the thread. It was not really attack at the mods for moving the discussion to a new thread, but rather, the fact that the original discussion had gotten to that point, where a whole new thread had to be created to continue the drama due to various members posts and discussion turns. I just think it's sad that people feed off and create so much drama and constantly respond to posts with such hostility and defense (which ultimately ended up targeting a member of the forum and another pointless, closed thread).

I agree with this. I understand some sort of action was needed and perhaps it had to be a choice between different evils and finding the lesser one. What's sad is that our members get riled up to the point where that is necessary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA

As I've seen in this thread, personal attacks (such as on sopsych) create a negative atmosphere that may make people feel less likely to want to participate in the community. The response to sopsych certainly wouldn't encourage *him* to post more about music, but I hope he continues. I admire his passion and knowledge about '80s pop rock.

In my view, our member sopsych simply agreed with the original moderator's opinion that MB is in trouble due to the nasty drama:

I agree. And not only does it discourage Sopsych from posting, it discourages me from posting as well and, I would assume, other people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA

^ How do we attract members who like to discuss music deeply and who don't bash people for their views?

I recommend that we...

* don't attack members by calling them trolls;
* don't tell members to leave the site when they dislike some of the dynamics here;
* don't misrepresent members such as sopsych by saying they contribute nothing, when they do;
* don't encourage mods to ban someone;
* don't make threads that appear to target one individual (as in this case sopsych) as if he were the only one here to complain about the forum.

* DO disagree with people's viewpoints when you disagree with them;
* DO stand up politely for your fellow members;
* DO encourage people to share their opinions about topics, even if you disagree with their opinion;
* DO report personal insults and attacks;
* DO enjoy music discussion with members and appreciate their contributions.

I agree with these points as well

Quote:

Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA

I feel that sopsych did not derail the thread from the initial topic. In fact, he was staying on topic by pointing out, like moderator Duga did, that the negative atmosphere (meanness, nastiness, jumping on posters with personal attacks) creates a less welcoming environment such that not as many people may want to share deeply and openly about music here.

I feel the way this thread evolved is ironically a perfect example of the negative climate that sopsych has wanted to change and that duga originally pointed out was a problem here.

I agree, Sopsych's posts are generally on topic. He hasn't broken any rules that I've seen. What derails the thread are people's reactions towards him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Granted, I haven't set such a good example as of late, but I do try to drop out of a conversation and stop being involved the moment I feel agitated by it. There's no way to say it without sounding like a preacher, but I think if more of us decided to drop heated-arguments, it'd be a more comfortable place for everyone.

I won't claim I always do it, but I feel like I quite often write responses in which my intention is to soften or at least not escalate hostilities. Sometimes, I got the perfect nasty retort in my mind

but I know posting it will only make matters worse and so I don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali

I don't think this strategy is a revelation in terms of human behavior. The problem isn't that people don't know the best way to approach a situation, it's that we're emotional and impulsive, the lot of us. Suggesting that we all flip a switch and decide to act upon our better judgement is probably less reasonable in realistic terms.
If "peace" (in so many words) was an effective motivation, we'd never have gotten to this point to begin with.

Some very good points here that I think hint at the root of it all. The culture here is a result of the environment here. We can't just flip the switch, as you mention. We have to create an environment which fosters a social culture where people moderate their own replies more when they want to post in anger.

The only way to do that, I think, is by moderation. I think moderation is also the only way by which Vegangelica's list of points could be achieved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astronomer

Not at all, I just think it sucks that people are upset and angered so easily.

What's ironic is that you now worry that your post has caused offense and you now have a bad conscience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Here's the thing about being a mod: when you are one you don't get the privilege of just ignoring forum drama. It's actually part of your responsibilities to respond to it in some way if it's getting out of hand. So you can imagine the frustration that comes with the reality that, when you try to deal with it in one way or another, no matter what you do, someone is going to be on your case about it. It's absolutely the shittiest part of being a mod. And even shittier still is when someone you like and respect jumps on you about a decision you've made to try and keep the peace. That's the point where you want to just throw up your hands and say, "Fuck it. Why the hell am I volunteering for this?"

I get that. Sometimes, a situation demands action and there are no good alternatives. Any action is bound to cause a negative response. It's sad that the job is like that.

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