We've got a major problem...

GuitarBizarre · 08-17-2013, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

Possibly the feature wasn't implemented in this version of vbulletin. It may date back to 2003 for all I know

edit :

But people would only +1 a post if they thought it was good, right? So if someone does a mad rush to get the most points, wouldn't that be a mad rush to make posts that other people like and thus reward with a +1?

It is certainly sounds better to me than post count which only rewards posting, no matter what the content is!

"Hey guys I want karma go +1 my posts".

oh look, people destroying your system.

tore, it doesn't work. it never has worked, in the entire history of online forums it probably hasn't worked, and I've seen it fail a whole ton of times the same way. it just becomes a pissing contest. hell, reddit is a site devoted to the idea of making something very similar work...and it just doesn't.

Guybrush · 08-17-2013, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

"Hey guys I want karma go +1 my posts".

oh look, people destroying your system.

tore, it doesn't work. it never has worked, in the entire history of online forums it probably hasn't worked, and I've seen it fail a whole ton of times the same way. it just becomes a pissing contest. hell, reddit is a site devoted to the idea of making something very similar work...and it just doesn't.

In your example, other people would still get +1s for good posts, even if one person somehow cheats. I agree that it is possible to abuse karma systems, but I don't want to categorically dismiss them all. I have heard of such systems working and so I assume it is possible.

But regardless, it was just an example of a possible way one could reward good behaviour. It is not one which can be implemented here and so it is a bit off-topic, but I would like to discuss its implementation if we were to have a new site. If only for a test run .. removing it if it didn't work as intended would be a simple matter.

Trollheart · 08-17-2013, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopsych

I said that to Trollheart after he attacked me, which wasn't the first time. I do appreciate some of his music posts when I read them (but until this week, I had never read a journal here). And I stand by my incendiary comment about people patting themselves on the back for making more music posts, as though that does much to prevent drama. (Yeah, I'm a glass-half-empty kind of person. That won't get me friends, but it shouldn't negate my ideas.)

Tore has said enough in my defense, I agree. It's time to move on to specific, non-technical solutions.

I challenge you to tell me where you think I attacked you. You were the one who slagged off my journal (well, all journals) by basically telling me they were not worth considering. I responded by telling you how many posts mine and others got. You responded by sneering that I wanted a medal. Nobody has attacked you: people have been quite tolerant really and have tried over and over to point things out to you, but you keep ignoring posts that don't fit in with your agenda. I would definitely love to see where I attacked you. People here know me (and don't mention cliques because I do not belong to one) and know that I do not attack anyone. It's not how I work.

And Neapolitan, thank you for your kind support of my work in the journals section. It's certainly appreciated mate.

Trollheart · 08-17-2013, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Francis

i agree with your last statement tore imo this place needs a friendlier vibe and though mods can set an exmpl by participating in the community while enforcing the rules it's also up to us the community to behave properly

what i mean by friendlier vibe is just acknowledging ppl and trying to be nice to them not just respecting someone for how much they know about music

sometimes i feel this forum as an elitist undertone to it and that you have to be a professional music critic to stand out or even be acknowledged so its ok for ppl who know more to inslut or offend someone who knows less to prove that

i don't blame anybody in particularly for this, sometimes ignorance needs to be stopped right away but instead of first degrading an ignorant person we should try to educate them not just use our knowledge to justify superiority over them and degrade them.

Francis, I love it! You've just invented a cool new word!

Also, picking up your point somewhat. Oh no wait, first, let me echo Jamsz's welcome back to you. You have been missed.

Now, when I first joined here in 2008 I did indeed feel that there was an elitist, you-dont-know-jack-about-music attitude, and that people were laughing at what they saw as my "pedestrian" music preferences. I left. Some time later |I rejoined and changed my attitude, to the point where I now think hell if people don't like my music then fine; there's music here I wouldn't listen to. But I made the effort to get out and meet these people and found them all, mostly, to be really nice people. I used to think Urban was a grumpy so-and-so who had it in for me, now I know he's a grumpy so-and-so who doesn't have it in for me. I actually really like him. A lot of it is about perception. Are you feeling marginalised because you're letting yourself be? Are you taking things too seriously? Hell, if someone talks about my "crappy prog albums" or "stupid genesis fetish" or whatever, I just laugh. Doesn't mean anything, and isn't meant to. It's just someone's opinion, and it could also be meant as a joke.

In the end, as everyone here knows, you make the forum better by how you approach it. If everyone here was gloomy, tight-arsed and up themselves about their music, it's likely we wouldn't even talk to each other, or stay here. Some people bring drama with them like the Irish summer brings the rain, but that doesn't mean you have to join in, or be affected by it. If you make it your mission to enjoy, and try to help others enjoy the forum, chances are it will work. Maybe not all the time, but I find more often than not it does.

One last point, to everyone. I noticed myself laughing at a post today (can't recall which, think it was Urban's comment about my power metal in my journal) but it set me to thinking, how often do I laugh here at posts and how often do I scowl or get angry/insulted/take offence? It's weighted far in favour of the former, and I think that has to be a good thing. It also hinges a lot on how you see, and use, the forum.

sopsych · 08-17-2013, 08:53 PM

I too think there's an elitist feel to this site. Maybe that's why few people seem to respect my music knowledge or even reply to my music comments.

Quote:

I challenge you to tell me where you think I attacked you. You were the one who slagged off my journal (well, all journals) by basically telling me they were not worth considering. I responded by telling you how many posts mine and others got. You responded by sneering that I wanted a medal. Nobody has attacked you: people have been quite tolerant really and have tried over and over to point things out to you, but you keep ignoring posts that don't fit in with your agenda. I would definitely love to see where I attacked you. People here know me (and don't mention cliques because I do not belong to one) and know that I do not attack anyone. It's not how I work.

There are two posts in that other thread that show you're not an innocent victim of my "medal" comment. One post includes an eye-roll and the second is a long derail filled with put-downs and technical truths that are worded sharply. I consider this mini-discussion over. In the future, please stick to your alleged non-attack policy. If people really did operate that way, there would be less drama on this site.

Anyway, when will people meet the challenge of coming up with doable, non-technical ideas for curtailing drama? This thread has been almost an amazing dance away from such musings.

Neapolitan · 08-17-2013, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopsych

I said that to Trollheart after he attacked me, which wasn't the first time. I do appreciate some of his music posts when I read them (but until this week, I had never read a journal here). And I stand by my incendiary comment about people patting themselves on the back for making more music posts, as though that does much to prevent drama. (Yeah, I'm a glass-half-empty kind of person. That won't get me friends, but it shouldn't negate my ideas.)

Tore has said enough in my defense, I agree. It's time to move on to specific, non-technical solutions.

I am at a lost... I thought you were going on about this site not being friendly?

Dr_Rez · 08-17-2013, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopsych

I too think there's an elitist feel to this site. Maybe that's why few people seem to respect my music knowledge or even reply to my music comments.

No **** bro it is a music forum it is elitist as fuvk. Welcome to the internet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopsych

There are two posts in that other thread that show you're not an innocent victim of my "medal" comment. One post includes an eye-roll and the second is a long derail filled with put-downs and technical truths that are worded sharply. I consider this mini-discussion over. In the future, please stick to your alleged non-attack policy. If people really did operate that way, there would be less drama on this site.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopsych

Anyway, when will people meet the challenge of coming up with doable, non-technical ideas for curtailing drama? This thread has been almost an amazing dance away from such musings.

Here is what you are doing to the members of this forum.

**Scarlett O'Hara** · 08-17-2013, 09:03 PM

I don't even know what to say about all this. What happened to this thread?

Black Francis · 08-17-2013, 09:06 PM

@Troll

well look at that i totally did invent a new word

Thnx for the welcome im surprise ppl still remember me
to add to what you said, yes i agree eventually you get used to this place but as a newcomer it can be kinda hard to adjust to this place cause ppl will pound at any little stupid thing you say..

Not everybody though.. i wanna make clear that some ppl here are very well adjusted and know to debate the subject not debate a person's character

The thing is those ppl get overshadowed by the jerk who attacks everybody
even i know the best way to get attention around here is by being an intellectual jerk to everybody.. we say we don't like drama but this thread alone is proof that we love to dwell on it.

i understand we all have a jerky side and that we like jerks and we secretly chuckle when they own somebody but we can't indulge that over being friendly to ppl because it affects the vibe of the community.

Its like you said, we shape the forums by how we behave on them ^^

Paedantic Basterd · 08-17-2013, 09:37 PM

My issue with karma systems is that they can be used to publicly popularize or shame particular users. Reputation features are tools easily manipulated by groupthink. I honestly, honestly, seriously don't think we need any more avenues through which to create and define user-cliques on this site.

08-17-2013, 09:03 PM	#418 (permalink)
Scarlett O'Hara Make it so Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,181	I don't even know what to say about all this. What happened to this thread? __________________ "Elph is truly an enfant terrible of the forum, bless and curse him" - Marie, Queen of Thots

08-17-2013, 09:06 PM	#419 (permalink)
Black Francis Out of Place Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: in an abstract house Posts: 4,111	@Troll well look at that i totally did invent a new word Thnx for the welcome im surprise ppl still remember me to add to what you said, yes i agree eventually you get used to this place but as a newcomer it can be kinda hard to adjust to this place cause ppl will pound at any little stupid thing you say.. Not everybody though.. i wanna make clear that some ppl here are very well adjusted and know to debate the subject not debate a person's character The thing is those ppl get overshadowed by the jerk who attacks everybody even i know the best way to get attention around here is by being an intellectual jerk to everybody.. we say we don't like drama but this thread alone is proof that we love to dwell on it. i understand we all have a jerky side and that we like jerks and we secretly chuckle when they own somebody but we can't indulge that over being friendly to ppl because it affects the vibe of the community. Its like you said, we shape the forums by how we behave on them ^^ __________________ "Hey Kids you got to meet the MIGHTY PIXIES!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbRbCtIgW3A

08-17-2013, 09:37 PM	#420 (permalink)
Paedantic Basterd Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5,184	My issue with karma systems is that they can be used to publicly popularize or shame particular users. Reputation features are tools easily manipulated by groupthink. I honestly, honestly, seriously don't think we need any more avenues through which to create and define user-cliques on this site.