We've got a major problem...

GuitarBizarre · 08-17-2013, 07:23 PM

Karma? Hell. NO.

Karma systems will ONLY result in the further entrenchment of whatever cliques exist already.

Guybrush · 08-17-2013, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

Karma? Hell. NO.

Karma systems will ONLY result in the further entrenchment of whatever cliques exist already.

Even if there's only the option of giving people a +1 for a post?

Paul Smeenus · 08-17-2013, 07:33 PM

A question I've been wanting to ask since the day I joined here. As a former mod of a vBulletin forum, I've been curious why the vBulletin "thank this poster" feature isn't used here...

GuitarBizarre · 08-17-2013, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

Even if there's only the option of giving people a +1 for a post?

Yes. It will turn into what the shoutbox shout counts did - One person making it their mission to get the highest number and a mad rush from a few people to compete for that until one clear winner emerges and lords that over everyone else.

Karma systems on forums do NOT encourage anything other than vain competition for internet points - They never have, and I remember having this same discussion with people as far back as 2006 on other forums - The consensus was pretty clear. They're a bad idea.

Guybrush · 08-17-2013, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Smeenus

A question I've been wanting to ask since the day I joined here. As a former mod of a vBulletin forum, I've been curious why the vBulletin "thank this poster" feature isn't used here...

Possibly the feature wasn't implemented in this version of vbulletin. It may date back to 2003 for all I know

edit :

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

Yes. It will turn into what the shoutbox shout counts did - One person making it their mission to get the highest number and a mad rush from a few people to compete for that until one clear winner emerges and lords that over everyone else.

Karma systems on forums do NOT encourage anything other than vain competition for internet points - They never have, and I remember having this same discussion with people as far back as 2006 on other forums - The consensus was pretty clear. They're a bad idea.

But people would only +1 a post if they thought it was good, right? So if someone does a mad rush to get the most points, wouldn't that be a mad rush to make posts that other people like and thus reward with a +1?

It is certainly sounds better to me than post count which only rewards posting, no matter what the content is!

GuitarBizarre · 08-17-2013, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Smeenus

A question I've been wanting to ask since the day I joined here. As a former mod of a vBulletin forum, I've been curious why the vBulletin "thank this poster" feature isn't used here...

Same as the karma thing. It just becomes a competition, not to mention it fails to perform its primary function and just becomes an ego boost for those people who get thanked a lot - of course, if you apply that to a "cliquey" forum...guess who gets most thanks? Right, the person at the top of the biggest clique.

Neapolitan · 08-17-2013, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burning Down

For me, the problem is not his opinions. It's how he keeps reiterating them after members have said they won't work for technical reasons or that they don't agree.

He complains that there is no music discussion happening, and when I pointed out some new threads that he could participate in or simply just read and browse through, he shot them down saying he did not wish to participate, and did not investigate into OTHER threads himself, as if the threads I chose were the be all and end all of music discussion here. I'm seriously at a loss for what can or should be done now to say to this member "Look there are all kinds of discussions happening!" and provide some links as a starting point. Not even bothering to check out existing music and other active discussions, and then coming here to complain about the lack of conversations happening, is crazy.

There is a ridiculous amount of white knighting going on in this thread. It's really getting old now, and it's not effective. Tore and Erica, I love you both, but I think you are both seeing this issue through rose coloured glasses.

I didn't like his attitude and some of the things he said which I thought was aimed at Trollheart. The part about "...and you want a medal?" and there was another part about "patting themselves on the back" which I can't find... (maybe it was deleted?) Now I didn't see TH respond to them so I don't know if he picked on them or wasn't phased by them, either way reading through that thread when I got up to that part it was a bit anticlimactic for me to read. I found a bit insulting because those comments seemed to be aimed at TH. I can not speak for everyone so... in my point of veiw is that Trollheart works hard to keep producing his journals. It does takes time and effort to make them, and I didn't like cavalier attitude (not towards the journal) but towards Trollheart, and his efforts in making them. TH did go on to defend the journal section journal section. Which I am glad he did. Still begs the question how can sopsych demand forum change, and not appreciate the time and effort that members like Trollheart put into the forum?

It seems to blow a hole in his argument that the forum isn't friendly enough and there needs to be some drastic change... if he's not being friendly himself.

Spoiler for quote:

@ Tore you are smart enough to go on and present your own views without mentioning him, because when you do he is making you his sock-puppet-by-proxy. Verstehen?

Guybrush · 08-17-2013, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

@ Tore you are smart enough to go on and present your own views without mentioning him, because when you do he is making you his sock-puppet-by-proxy. Verstehen?

I disagree because in regards to the principles I've argued, I've held those views for longer than he's been a member of these forums. It's just that I can apply them to his situation as I can to any situation. But thank you for your slightly condescending notice.

sopsych · 08-17-2013, 07:51 PM

I said that to Trollheart after he attacked me, which wasn't the first time. I do appreciate some of his music posts when I read them (but until this week, I had never read a journal here). And I stand by my incendiary comment about people patting themselves on the back for making more music posts, as though that does much to prevent drama. (Yeah, I'm a glass-half-empty kind of person. That won't get me friends, but it shouldn't negate my ideas.)

Tore has said enough in my defense, I agree. It's time to move on to specific, non-technical solutions.

Black Francis · 08-17-2013, 07:54 PM

i agree with your last statement tore imo this place needs a friendlier vibe and though mods can set an exmpl by participating in the community while enforcing the rules it's also up to us the community to behave properly

what i mean by friendlier vibe is just acknowledging ppl and trying to be nice to them not just respecting someone for how much they know about music

sometimes i feel this forum as an elitist undertone to it and that you have to be a professional music critic to stand out or even be acknowledged so its ok for ppl who know more to inslut or offend someone who knows less to prove that

i don't blame anybody in particularly for this, sometimes ignorance needs to be stopped right away but instead of first degrading an ignorant person we should try to educate them not just use our knowledge to justify superiority over them and degrade them.

08-17-2013, 07:51 PM	#409 (permalink)
sopsych Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: indoors Posts: 722	I said that to Trollheart after he attacked me, which wasn't the first time. I do appreciate some of his music posts when I read them (but until this week, I had never read a journal here). And I stand by my incendiary comment about people patting themselves on the back for making more music posts, as though that does much to prevent drama. (Yeah, I'm a glass-half-empty kind of person. That won't get me friends, but it shouldn't negate my ideas.) Tore has said enough in my defense, I agree. It's time to move on to specific, non-technical solutions. __________________ If you have ideas or feedback for the site, visit The Musicbanter Improvement Thread.

08-17-2013, 07:54 PM	#410 (permalink)
Black Francis Out of Place Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: in an abstract house Posts: 4,111	i agree with your last statement tore imo this place needs a friendlier vibe and though mods can set an exmpl by participating in the community while enforcing the rules it's also up to us the community to behave properly what i mean by friendlier vibe is just acknowledging ppl and trying to be nice to them not just respecting someone for how much they know about music sometimes i feel this forum as an elitist undertone to it and that you have to be a professional music critic to stand out or even be acknowledged so its ok for ppl who know more to inslut or offend someone who knows less to prove that i don't blame anybody in particularly for this, sometimes ignorance needs to be stopped right away but instead of first degrading an ignorant person we should try to educate them not just use our knowledge to justify superiority over them and degrade them. __________________ "Hey Kids you got to meet the MIGHTY PIXIES!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbRbCtIgW3A