rostasi

Guybrush

I know how he irritates you, GB. It's just that I don't believe in excuses. If you troll someone because they annoy you, you should do so with the knowledge and acceptance that you may get moderated for doing so because it is against the rules. In my opinion, you're not excused from trolling because the person you're doing it to is Sopsych.

Many people have acted in anger in this thread and contributed to the resulting derailing. But mods and members have really only held one person accountable for all that happened as far as I can tell and that is Sopsych. Aren't or shouldn't we all have an obligation to not break rules and derail threads?

Edit :

We discuss drama and hostility, but when people then generate drama and hostility in this very thread, noone is prepared to take any responsibility. Instead, everyone starts playing the blame game.

Where are the principles? Where are the moral standards and integrity?

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Something Completely Different

GuitarBizarre

He has spent no fewer than thirty THOUSAND characters, repeating to us all that he is the one true saviour of our forum world, and is being hamstrung by those diabolical, hideous moderators that would DARE allow anyone to respond to him negatively in any way.

I am past the point of thinking he should be given a leash whatsoever, let alone one the length you seem to want to give him. He is NOT, and WILL not help. His entire diatribe in these two threads has been SOLELY BASED around his monumental, astonishingly precise and focused, and COMPLETE inability to temper his own arrogance with even the slightest bit of humility.

When you're putting out gems like this:
Is this sort of prattle not the kind of **** that rings alarm bells for you Tore? Does this GENUINELY not give you any pause whatsoever when you support this rampant egomaniac?

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Guybrush

I don't think you understand. What Sopsych wrote or even that it was him that did it matters not. It's about principle and could be applied to any conflict.

Who should be held accountable or punished is a moral dilemma, but there's precious little moral thinking here, only gut reactions and blame-gaming.

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Something Completely Different

sopsych

Arrogance is not a crime. But - instead of answering a mod's good question about formal moderation changes - trolling someone like that should be a crime, and I will hope that derailing batch of posts get deleted. Also, that stuff isn't even accurate at its heart - I never said that me starting threads again would make a big difference in the quality of Music Banter.

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GuitarBizarre

Tore, at this point, I think you're just completely making **** up so you can believe sopsych is a good person, to the point you're utterly ignoring any evidence that he's not, in favour of believing everyone other than sopsych, is making some sort of shared mistake that is making sopsych irrational.

I'm sorry, but if this is the kind of moderators attitude you would bring to a new site, I can't honestly believe it'd be any better than this.

There is no perfect system wherein everyone can get along and be perfect friends with everyone and be amazingly understanding. If you're trying to apportion out blame for sopsych, to everyone else, on the basis that we are somehow as much of a problem... I can only liken it to trying to blame white blood cells for making you weak when you get sick, or blaming your blood for making your skin dirty if you cut yourself.

Nobody is blaming sopsych for anything because he's perfect and we're looking for a scapegoat for a problem - people are blaming sopsych for his bull**** because it is exactly that and we are sick and tired of it and the only way any of us have of getting rid of a disruptive force, is to make it clear in progressively more extreme ways, what a disruption he is. Our only other option would be to never respond to anything he said and just endlessly report his posts to the mods, which you can't possibly, ever, in a million years believe, is a valid use of the report system when it comes to trying to rid ourselves of a law-abiding but disruptive prick.

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Guybrush

^And so I fear the drama shall continue I would advise people to use the ignore function or at least not resort to name calling and the like if they feel offended.

Despite the social danger that comes from agreeing with Sopsych on anything here, I do think it would be a pity if Urban's question is buried and forgotten so here it is.

Please read Urban's question quoted below!

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Something Completely Different

GuitarBizarre

Also tore, the funny thing about trying to run a moral system, is that as Nietchze said, "A moral system valid for all is basically immoral.".

We shouldn't be, and I hope we aren't, looking for a solution based on morals. If the finest minds in the history of mankind have failed to define a moral system that doesn't come up horribly short when applied practically, then I think the solution is a practical system. Adding some ridiculous moral high ground to the question of "is this working, and why not if not?", is just overcomplicating the issue entirely.

Sopsych IS the source of all of this disruption and his boundless arrogance has earned him no friends, nor do I think it is practical to try and save him from himself when it comes at the cost of everyone elses enjoyment. Get rid of the thorn in our side and we might be able to actually focus on something practical to solve our other problems.

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Guybrush

GB, I think you're too emotionally involved in this to see that I am talking about principles here. I am asking you to see the consequences of your own actions and own up to them. If I had used some other example that didn't involve your nemesis, perhaps you would've seen some sense in it, but I think your anger blinds you at the moment.

edit :

Nietzche didn't understand human morality.

I don't understand it. I see a lot of people derailing the thread. Some do so by breaking the site rules. Why should I consider Sop the only one responsible for all those derailing, trolly posts? Are we no longer accountable for our own actions?

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Something Completely Different

GuitarBizarre

And as for Urban's post - I think the lenient moderation we have is perfectly fine, and, as I have said for the whole thread long, the forum community should be made aware that under a lenient system, they are more responsible for governing themselves.

With that said, there are some extreme examples of leniency that have been showcased regarding members like hermione, who have largely been inflammatory for long periods with little or no repercussion, and I think the mod team should take a role there, not in being less lenient, but in simply being more present as a known entity that can and will take action if a person's behaviour continues.

In short, if, say, hermione, is consistently inflammatory for a long periood and the mods are unhappy with this or discussing if action should be taken, then I think there should be a level before "banning hermione for 2 weeks", where the mod team make some sort of direct statement pointing out that hermione or any other member in need of this guidance, needs to tread carefully before hammers start falling.

It's no less lenient, in as much as the member is denied no priveledge until they wilfully disregard this advice, but it at least places the mod team more "in the fray" rather than the current system, which essentially makes mods no different to any other member until such time as a direct punitive action is taken.

That would in turn result in a greater respect of the mods capabilities, and should hopefully reinforce the previous statement I made regards a community that is aware it should govern itself so that the mods need not involve themselves in these ridiculous, drawn out, overly painful grey areas, where there is a clear problem that needs addressing, but the forum encounters a reminder of the mod teams function so rarely and ineffectually, that the respect for the mod team is lost.

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