We've got a major problem...

djchameleon · 08-08-2013, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

I really don't think this is an appropriate thread for labelling individual members as trolls, sock puppets, or whatever, when the whole point of it in the first place was to discuss ways of getting away from that.
Would it really hurt to judge the tone of the matter being discussed and bite your tongue once in a while?

it's hard though when all that member does is constantly criticize MB but I understand and you can delete this post.

also I edited my other post.

**Janszoon** · 08-08-2013, 07:01 AM

I'm curious about what people are referring to when they say they think this place is harsh to new members. Maybe I'm missing something here but I don't generally see people being mean to new members or anything. The worst thing I see is that they're often overlooked, but that's true of every forum I've ever been to so I guess I don't see that as really a notable attribute of MB. Is there something else I'm missing here?

Astronomer · 08-08-2013, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I'm curious about what people are referring to when they say they think this place is harsh to new members. Maybe I'm missing something here but I don't generally see people being mean to new members or anything. The worst thing I see is that they're often overlooked, but that's true of every forum I've ever been to so I guess I don't see that as really a notable attribute of MB. Is there something else I'm missing here?

I think the original post was more gearing towards how to get new members to stay on the forum and avoid all of the bitchiness/cliqueyness, rather than how new members are received, perhaps?

Urban Hat€monger ? · 08-08-2013, 07:20 AM

I think we're perhaps blowing out of proportion the whole thing about new people joining.

You can't make people stay if they want to and I don't think there's a massive amount of hostility towards people who do join. I think there's a feeling out process, seeing what this person is like, testing them and that kind of thing, but I've never been to a forum where that hasn't happened.

Basically if someone makes an introduction thread and about 10 people welcome them to the forum and they leave after doing nothing but a couple of posts in that thread I don't really see what else we can do, in the same way if someone says on the forum 'I like this band' and I say 'tell us why you like them' and try to get them to expand on the issue and they don't I'm obviously going not bother with them and be more drawn to the new members who do talk as well as the existing members.

There's been times when I've lurked around a forum, joined it and then thought, nahh.
It happens, a lot.

I'll talk to them, I'll have a laugh and a joke with them, but I'm not going to bottlefeed them endlessly in the hope they make one interesting post one day.

Arya Stark · 08-08-2013, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo

I haven't read through this entire thread, only about half of it, so forgive me if I'm slightly off pace. It's a lot to take in.

I'd have to go all the way back to the first couple of pages and Pedestrians posts to find one I completely, 100% agree with.

The way I see it is this:

The Lounge and the supposed problems it creates. There are even people here saying that people shouldn't post in The Lounge so much. What gives anyone the right to say that, when it is there to be used? It's quite simple really, if you don't want to read whats being posted in The Lounge, just don't use it. It should be policed, it will create more provocative discussion than the music forums by the very nature of it, but nobody is forcing you to use it. The way I see it is that the only people who do have to visit it and read it are the mods, because they need to police it. I have and I'm sure I will find something there to annoy me, but as a regular member it's so much easier to deal with the minority of posts in there that grind my gears - I just click out of that thread and move on to another one.

I don't think theres a question and answer system to fix anything here. I don't think it's a case of anyone going "Ok, this is what I don't like about MB - fix it" and closing down sub-forums etc to achieve a better, more positive, healthier forum. I don't think we can do that. I think to even attempt to achieve that (and who knows, maybe it just isnt possible) what would be required is a complete overhaul - and not in content, but in attitude.

I don't think we are a very welcoming forum. I think some new members will feel welcomed which is great, that means they got through. I'd bet that more don't get through, cause either they directly have an interaction with someone that puts them off, or they observe what happens here and decide they don't like it. Or they just don't think theres much of anything happening here at all and that we aren't a healthy enough forum to warrant their time.

To change that I think there are many members who need to recognise their part within that. Who need to recognise that the attitude they take onto the forums could be better, they could be more tolerant, they could treat people with more respect, and they make people feel more welcome. Posting in intro threads isn't enough (but certainly shouldn't be discouraged!) but a unanimous effort, I feel, would need to be made to start to take steps in the right direction to making this forum look a much more welcoming, warm, healthy place to any user who signs up with even a slight consideration given to staying here. If that were achievable, you may just find the forum would become more prosperous, because it would be much more enjoyable to be here rather than feel like so much of a chore at times.

For example this week has felt a huge chore for me, and so I haven't been here much. Only this morning did I remember that DJ has sent his album for Mystery Album Club out - a thread that, if people make use it, can only help to create music discussion and bring the community together in an activity to do together - and I've forgotten all about it. Out of sight, out of mind.

Both recognising where their attitude could improve and attempting to improve it, is applicable to everyone. Regular users and moderators. After all, the way I see it, the way in which a forum is moderated does effect the overall attitude and tone of the forum.

I'm not saying we should all be kissy face with each other and false, plastic versions of our true selves but I tend to try to think of that new visitor to the site who takes a look around, consider what they might just see, depending on what threads they click into, and am never surprised if that person doesn't come back.

You have some really great insight here, a lot that I agree with.

I think that a big problem here is that everyone wants to tell everyone else to "stop" doing this and "refrain from" doing that, but there are ways to add positivity without completely removing everything that is problematic. We all could stop getting so caught up in drama and stop attacking others personally. But people could also try to add more to the music side of the forum. Rather than solely sitting around in the lounge, they could try to do more to talk about music.

For a long time, my taste in music was changing, and definitely becoming more mainstream, and I didn't feel that I had a lot of places to talk about what I liked. I'm not always interested in specific threads for bands, and I prefer musical discussion. But I honestly feel like a lot of people here don't want to be involved in that discussion, so it's hard for me to stay in the music forums sometimes, because everything I keep up with seems to die down within a week, while threads about anything political will stay going for months. This is fine, but there's no balance.

I distinctly remember the lounge being the same when I first joined, and the arguments being similar. There WAS drama before, and I don't know why everyone's forgetting that. Some members have been around for a while and become friends, and stand up for each other when they want to, and if you only think there are some people doing this, you need to take another look around.

tldr; people need to try to be more involved in the MUSIC community. instead of trying to remove everything that bothers us, perhaps we should try harder to be more supportive when it comes to music threads.

TheBig3 · 08-08-2013, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

tldr; people need to try to be more involved in the MUSIC community. instead of trying to remove everything that bothers us, perhaps we should try harder to be more supportive when it comes to music threads.

What makes you think they aren't?

The problem with the musical discussion is that its work. Either you go listen to something you've never heard before and give a pithy response on the one or two songs you've heard, or you go listen to the full album (or a few) and that takes time a lot of folks don't have.

I'd love to write more reviews, but when I do they go largely ignored, or worse you get some response that you (me) can't figure out and the most polite thing to do is just not respond. And sure, we can force ourselves, but music shouldn't really be a research project. We come to music at our own pace, and stumble over things and get passionate about it. The problem is that the further out on the fringe you go (and that's the benefit of the site), the fewer people are going to be interested.

If anything, we need a musical sightseeing tour. Like we'd agree to just let person A ramble for a week in some thread, and we all respond to their posts. It would be cohesive, and you could all enter the discussion form the same point. I don't think coming down from the mountain saying "get your **** together and talk about music more" like a parent screaming at a child is going to achieve anything but more disinterest in the site.

Arya Stark · 08-08-2013, 10:28 AM

What makes me think they aren't is the activity in the lounge compared to the activity in the music threads.
I didn't say no one is involved, I said everyone should try to be MORE involved. Which is a community effort.

I don't think I'm "coming down from the mountain." I think I've made several attempts to include my taste in music and to get discussion going, and they are either dying out or not being noticed, which is obvious since I haven't made any review threads or anything that required much work for a response.

TheBig3 · 08-08-2013, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

What makes me think they aren't is the activity in the lounge compared to the activity in the music threads.
I didn't say no one is involved, I said everyone should try to be MORE involved. Which is a community effort.

I don't think I'm "coming down from the mountain." I think I've made several attempts to include my taste in music and to get discussion going, and they are either dying out or not being noticed, which is obvious since I haven't made any review threads or anything that required much work for a response.

You sound angry. That wasn't directed at you. Its a general statement.

Paedantic Basterd · 08-08-2013, 10:45 AM

I'm not going to stick around to hash it out because I'm volunteering at the SPCA today, but for instance:

http://www.musicbanter.com/introduct...2-im-back.html

Four posts, all of them mocking, none of them welcoming this poster to the site, none of them asking her interests or attempting to start a conversation. The posts themselves aren't particularly harmful, but the impression all of them give together? And the mockery is based on... what exactly? Her username? Our first impression here is not overtly offensive, but it's not welcoming or interesting. And then we complain that people don't stay, after we make no effort to keep them?

Urban Hat€monger ? · 08-08-2013, 10:53 AM

Really? I thought mine was quite jovial.
She must have thought so too because the last time she was here she friended me on LastFM.

08-08-2013, 07:01 AM	#132 (permalink)
Janszoon Mate, Spawn & Die Join Date: May 2007 Location: The Rapping Community Posts: 24,593	I'm curious about what people are referring to when they say they think this place is harsh to new members. Maybe I'm missing something here but I don't generally see people being mean to new members or anything. The worst thing I see is that they're often overlooked, but that's true of every forum I've ever been to so I guess I don't see that as really a notable attribute of MB. Is there something else I'm missing here? __________________ A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man Time & Place 25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die last.fm

08-08-2013, 07:20 AM	#134 (permalink)
Urban Hat€monger ? The Sexual Intellectual Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere cooler than you Posts: 18,605	I think we're perhaps blowing out of proportion the whole thing about new people joining. You can't make people stay if they want to and I don't think there's a massive amount of hostility towards people who do join. I think there's a feeling out process, seeing what this person is like, testing them and that kind of thing, but I've never been to a forum where that hasn't happened. Basically if someone makes an introduction thread and about 10 people welcome them to the forum and they leave after doing nothing but a couple of posts in that thread I don't really see what else we can do, in the same way if someone says on the forum 'I like this band' and I say 'tell us why you like them' and try to get them to expand on the issue and they don't I'm obviously going not bother with them and be more drawn to the new members who do talk as well as the existing members. There's been times when I've lurked around a forum, joined it and then thought, nahh. It happens, a lot. I'll talk to them, I'll have a laugh and a joke with them, but I'm not going to bottlefeed them endlessly in the hope they make one interesting post one day. __________________ Urb's RYM Stuff Most people sell their soul to the devil, but the devil sells his soul to Nick Cave.

08-08-2013, 10:53 AM	#140 (permalink)
Urban Hat€monger ? The Sexual Intellectual Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere cooler than you Posts: 18,605	Really? I thought mine was quite jovial. She must have thought so too because the last time she was here she friended me on LastFM. __________________ Urb's RYM Stuff Most people sell their soul to the devil, but the devil sells his soul to Nick Cave.

08-08-2013, 10:45 AM	#139 (permalink)
Paedantic Basterd Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5,184	I'm not going to stick around to hash it out because I'm volunteering at the SPCA today, but for instance: http://www.musicbanter.com/introduct...2-im-back.html Four posts, all of them mocking, none of them welcoming this poster to the site, none of them asking her interests or attempting to start a conversation. The posts themselves aren't particularly harmful, but the impression all of them give together? And the mockery is based on... what exactly? Her username? Our first impression here is not overtly offensive, but it's not welcoming or interesting. And then we complain that people don't stay, after we make no effort to keep them?