Contact with thread starter before a thread is closed
 

This could be a completely stupid idea, or it could be a good one, but I wanted to post it while it's on my mind.

I'm not a big fan of seeing threads closed, as many other people are the same way i'm sure. Especially when it's a thread that could create some good discussion. I'm wondering if there's a more constructive way we can go about it than just simply saying 'closed'. I'm not talking about those threads that are obviously duplicates of other threads, or those threads that get replies that are like...5 or 6 years old, i'm talking about the ones that are intellectual, a good read, and good debating, whether it's music or non related.

My suggestion would compile of the following:
-Deleting the posts that caused the thread to go off topic in the first place, and the people be warned not to make the thread go off topic.
-Informing the thread starter (if it's possible) to get the thread back on topic with a follow up to get people back onto the topic that they originally started. This could just be as simple as a video, or some more thoughts of theirs, or even referencing their opening post to get people to see that they want the thread to stay on the topic.

I think a threads future should be more in the hands of the person who started it and not the people who have the power to close it. I know it's a long shot, but I felt I needed to share it as it made sense in my head. Obviously, if the person who started the thread has no interest in getting the thread back on topic, it can be closed.

This is in no way a trash talk towards anybody, it's just something I wanted to share.

Thanks.

Generally, this is how we try to do it. I'd be hard pressed to find a thread that generated some good discussion that got closed permanently. Sometimes we will close them for a short period just to deter the trolls/off topic posters from continuing. Such is what happened with the Numerical Dimensions thread (and this is being taken care of).

If you had something more specific in mind, though, what would you suggest?

If I could take anything from my OP and have it be more specific, it'd be to contact the thread starter. I just find that if the person who started the thread is aware that their original topic is being taken away from the thread, i'd think they'd like some notification as to what's happening and why it's happening and hopefully they can resolve it. I'm not saying to do this on every thread that's closed, obviously. It'd sort of be like putting more responsibility on the person who started the thread, and perhaps it would allow for people to see how much people enjoy seeing their threads be a success.

You seriously want to deny Urban his thread-closing fetish?? :D:D

Actually, I just think this would be putting extra work on mods. If someone is in a thread, and wants it to continue they should themselves realise it's going off-topic and bring it back, although sometimes this isn't possible. I think the time potentially wasted by contacting people -- and let's remember, not everyone is a loser like me with nowhere else to go and so is here every day --- could be more profitably spent.
Also, don't forget many closed threads are started by someone who posed a question and then ****ed off, never to be seen again. Who then do the mods contact in that case?

I think threads are usually shown to be ready for closing or on the verge of being closed before the axe falls, although I do know Urban prowls the forum looking for unsuspecting threads he can brutalise and close, disappearing back into the thick soupy fog of old London Town... ;)

Personally, I think you're maybe (maybe) asking too much, but then I'm not a mod and it wouldn't really affect me, so what am I doing answering this? You know what? You're right. Seeya! :laughing:

^This has nothing to do with Urban. Like I said, it's either a good idea or a stupid idea, but I wanted to just put it out there.

Oh, I can think of a productive thread that was closed - and the thread starter was not effectively contacted.

I support the basic suggestion in this thread. I want to add that some threads should be closed or a "Calm down" message issued sooner, before people pile on with insults.

On my other forum, the mods just split it into new thread with the off topic posts. Assuming that the off topic posts merit a new thread of course.

Yeah, I love Urban, but he's definitely a bit too trigger happy about closing threads.

That's because I remember when this place had some standards & people weren't afraid to say to someone 'This thread is stupid, make more of effort.'

Usually, I agree with you when you wanna close a thread, but I seem to remember a few times where I thought it wasn't necessary, although I can't recall those instances ATM besides the spam thread.

That's why i'm putting out the idea that there should be more responsibility for the thread starter. If the thread doesn't start off strong, the content isn't strong. And instead of closing the thread, the OP gets contacted and should be responsible for getting the ball rolling again.

your taking the assumption that the topic can be salvaged all the time.

If I close a thread permanently it's because a thread asking something dumb like 'What is your favourite colour Pringles tube' has gone massively off topic.

Ordinarily I would close a thread like that after the first post for being so idiotic but then I get called things like trigger happy, so I decide to leave it open. Because it's a dumb thread it soon gets filled up with crap and off topic arguments.
So I close it, because a topic so dumb really doesn't need salvaging and then I get called trigger happy again.

So in short, start proper threads and don't instigate topics a 4 year old would find stupid and this won't happen.

^I mentioned that in my OP as well that there are exceptions, based on whether the thread is a duplicate or just down right stupid. I do agree though, as i've stated before, it should be the thread starters responsibility to start the thread strong, otherwise the content within it won't be strong.

I couldn't resist. :laughing:

I should have just changed the question in my post, then you would have just been left with a really dumb thread that people would think you really want to know the answer to.

:p: Don't be a poopy head just cause you were defeated by my comic genius.

I haven't read all of the replies, but I would say that there are two main reasons a thread gets closed on short notice:

1) It's a newbie's misplaced/spam/duplicate thread.
2) Users within the thread are having some kind of pointless circular argument.

In the case of the second point, nothing will stop two stubborn members from continuing to derail the conversation, regardless of how many times they are warned, or how many other people attempt to return the topic to its original state.

In my experience, the only thing that will keep these people out of a scrap is to remove their platform for fighting on, even just until they cool off. I wish we could ban specific users from specific threads instead, because it's a shame that all other members should be denied an adult discussion when they're capable of having it.

If we can find a way to address this specific problem, we may be on to something.

I know it's always a long shot to request something to happen to the forum, but there's is a plug-in/hack for vBulletin that can allow thread bans for specific users:

Ban Users From a Thread - vBulletin.org Forum

The owner set it up at my other forum, and it works wonders. You can set how long you want them to be banned from the thread, or just keep the banned permanently. It works the same way as regular banning does.

Well, let me just put it out there that while that looks like a jolly solution...

We're only asked by the admins if we need any updates once every couple of years, and I would say 97% of our requests go either ignored, or refused. The updates we do receive are minor, such as having words added to or removed from the swear filter, and I believe Yak does that.

We can try and remember it if they ask us again, but I would bank on the answer being a no.

Yeah, I know about the low success rate with the admins, but I wanted to bring up the hack anyway for conversation sake. This site would be perfect if the success rate was higher than what you said, because that's the only thing that's lacking at this point.

I honestly dont see anything wrong with this site myself. I think the mods act accordingly when the situation calls for it most the time. Some mods are more strict than others but it all evens out in the long run. Thats just my take on it though

Part of what's wrong is too much fighting, off-putting to new people and some of us who have been here a while.

I have seen the ban-from-thread feature used on another forum. (On me. For a weird reason, a rule specific to that site.) If it can be implemented here for proper usage, try it. But from what I've seen, it's not one-on-one fights that are a problem; it is usually multiple people against one. If people are chronically starting fights, more than banning from threads needs to be done. Sometimes the attacking is a response to suspected trolling.[/venting]

Perhaps you should stop starting arguments then.

Let me guess, everyone was against you there too.

Not sure what you're getting at. To me, it feels like you're using this as an opportunity to vent about something personal, which is fine I guess, but it wasn't exactly what I had in mind with this suggestion.

I have extra pitchforks and torches if anyone needs them.

"it is usually multiple people against one" - people here should break the habit. On the other site, it's rarely more than 2 vs. 1, and I don't think I am the biggest whipping boy there. Just because someone makes a point (maybe in the premise of a new thread) that isn't popular doesn't mean scorn should be the result. If handled carefully, rarely would anything but self-promotional and duplicate threads need to be closed.

I had a neat idea: if fighting happens and the original poster is reacting to it, the moderator contacting him or her should apologize for it. Makes the site seem friendlier that way. Of course that presupposes the moderator isn't one of the fighting few, which too often is the case.

:laughing:
Oh you

Ki I'm so so so sorry that sopsych has made your thread go off topic despite you already telling him once that this isn't what you were talking about when you started the thread.

Would you like me to delete his posts from this thread and ask him to apologise to you for taking your thread off topic?

^ not really necessary. Doesn't really derail the topic of the thread too much


Thanks though.

you just wanted to start a thread like this with nothing in mind?

Is that so hard to believe? To be completely honest with you, I was thinking about this idea while I was taking a shower yesterday morning. There wasn't anything from this forum beforehand relating to those thoughts, they were just thoughts, and I wanted to express those thoughts with the rest of the forum.

Ki, I agree with you completely that non-duplicate threads made by legitimate posters should not be closed, even if the topic meanders or is considered "stupid" by mods, unless the original poster (when available) requests and/or okays the closure.

If people are getting horribly off-topic or vicious in a thread, rather than close the thread so that no one else can participate in the discussion, I recommend mods focus on the members who seem to be violating rules.

Closing a thread to end bickering will just result in that bickering moving elsewhere. Also, thread closure deprives other members of a chance to participate in a discussion they may find interesting.

* * *

Stupid is subjective. Even if a mod thinks a thread topic is stupid doesn't mean everyone else will.

I'd much rather that thread topics reflect what individual non-mod members feel are interesting and valuable, not just what mods think. I feel the beauty of MB is that one can find any topic anyone could ever imagine discussed here...and many I would have never thought of! I like those best...threads like, "What's your favorite Pringles' tube color?" ;)

This month I saw a thread in which people bashed the thread topic as boring and then targeted the original poster rather than discussing her or his topic. Rather than being a high point in MB's history, I felt those rude responses were a low point, and very off-putting to the OP. Saying some topic is stupid or boring in the thread itself is also off topic!

If having "standards" means the right to act like jerks to people for expressing their ideas, then I think it is a good thing if MB lacks "standards."

Thank you for holding back and keeping threads open when you yourself feel the topic is stupid.

About the question of who should decide what a "proper" thread topic is, assuming it relates to music in the music forums and non-music in the lounge threads, I say leave it up to the community.

If members give honest replies to a thread topic, then I'd say that means it is "proper." And even if no one replies now, perhaps someone will later. I feel a hands off approach is better than over-moderation.

* * *

As usual, sopsych, I agree with you about fighting in threads being off-putting, especially when it is multiple people against one, such as in these off-topic comments by mods aimed at you...

and...

...however, sopsych, I'd rather let the fighting happen (but have mods warn members in private) and keep threads open unless the OP requests closure.

Also, when threads go off-topic, I'd rather let the threads meander or have mods address the meanderers instead of close the thread.

I remember when your thread about liking shorter songs got closed because we were discussing the possible relationship between drug use and people's preferences for song length. Since a mod closed your thread, I ended up continuing the discussion of drugs and the type of music people produce or prefer in another thread. During that process, I learned about "narcotica" music and the way drugs affect the mind's tolerance for longer songs. The discussion resulting from your thread topic was useful and interesting to me. I felt your thread was closed for no reason and discussion was squelched, simply because mods didn't like the topic and the direction it was taking.

As an MB user, I don't like it when discussions I enjoy are stopped. When that happens, I'd rather that mods just focus on deleting obvious spam (ads for toasters, etc.) and stay out of music threads in which they don't like the topic but other MB members do.

I try to merge duplicate threads, but since there's been a problem with post and thread merging across VBulletin forums (like MB) lately, the best I can do is post a link to the existing thread before I close the new one.

Edit: I'm stupid. I misread your post :o:

That is awesome! Yeah I don't think it's always possible to talk to people about their threads first, it just depends on the circumstances. We do try to tell people through PM why their thread was closed or as the last post of the thread.

I don't think you can rely on the thread starter to keep the thread on track because not everyone returns and they shouldn't be responsible for poor behaviour/circular arguements, unless they're involved.

Under certain circumstances, it's completely understandable why the thread starter can't keep his thread up to date and interesting, however I know a lot of people, like myself do take a lot of time in thinking of the best way to bring up the topic that we're creating the thread about. The more effort somebody puts into a thread, the more interesting it will look and the more likely a person is to read it. I don't know if most people are the same as I am, but I get easily drawn into something when it's colorful and not of the norm. Ped's threads for example, I absolutely love what she does with the images she puts in the beginnings of her threads, they're attention grabbing and they draw me in. However in some cases, more is probably too much. I don't know, I feel like i'm babbling now.

I understand, I suppose it would be voluntary for people to keep control of their threads but personally I think mod's can just be directive if we need to.

Understandable. I'm not saying anything negative about the mods, you guys do a fine job and this place is always spotless. I was just bringing up an alternative approach if it was ever needed, that's all. :)

Thanks for mentioning it anyway, it's worth discussing.

Wow, Vegan. Just wow. Fully siding with the trolls now, eh? No sense of context whatsoever. Apparently it's totally okay with you if Sopsych makes hostile, off-topic posts, but heaven forbid anyone respond to them.

I've refrained from weighing in against your comments in this part of the site for a very long time because I've always respected you and your opinion even when I didn't agree with it. Thanks for letting me know the respect wasn't mutual. I'll be sure to take the gloves off from now on.

Yeah...it is.

The current system seems to work fine. If you want my honest opinion, I think these Mods close threads way too early, but its not as if you're suggesting they stop. You're hoping to just write policy for a forum that doesn't need policy for this issue.

If you don't have an example of a thread that was executed poorly, then I don't know what you're after. I think about a lot of things while I'm shampooing my mop - its best we don't post everything we think while bathing.